TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#136226: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:15:33 AM

I never really got all the harping on that scene. Yeah, it's pandering and cheesy as hell. So? People really acting like they've never seen a 90s feminist "GIRL POWER" bit like that before? Really?

Keep in mind, I do agree that it can be dissected from a feminist angle, but that wasn't where that backlash was coming from. No, it was mainly from those types whinging over how the scene was "forced SJW pandering" or some shit. Tobias is right, nobody calls it "pandering" when it's a bunch of white dudes.

Hawkeye86 Spirit of Battle from Classified (Searching for Spock) Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Spirit of Battle
#136227: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:29:06 AM

My issue with that scene was more that there was no need for Captain Marvel to have an escort, and she almost immediately leaves them behind, so to me that made it stick out.

You and I remember Budapest very differently
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#136228: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:36:38 AM

Yeah, you could immediately make that scene probably 50% better as a scene just by having it be "the female heroes rally around literally anyone besides Carol Danvers, the character we have gone out of our way to tout as one of, potentially the most powerful hero here outright".

That we're expected to believe Carol needs any kind of help from Shuri and Mantis immediately puts the scene at a disadvantage in terms of feeling even the least bit natural.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#136229: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:40:39 AM

The poster who suggested that it should've been Wanda and Carol running interference for Peter might've been onto something. It would've been a neat little moment seeing as Wanda and Peter were on opposite sides of the conflict during Civil War.

let's hope the film doesn't become too crowded with villains

I mean, we've see what happened the last two times that happened.

Okey Dokey!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#136230: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:41:10 AM

Eh. I can kinda buy it as sure Carol doesn't really need their help, but in this case, anything that lets her 100% focus on getting the glove to the van means extra insurance.

In fact, since Thanos was able to toss Carol around a bit despite her being stronger (and that's before he used the Power Stone) I'd argue it wasn't a poor choice for them to lend a hand. In fact I'd say their only mistake was that they didn't try to guard the van itself.

But yeah, even I was raising my eyebrow at the scene and saw it for what it was (and what it was trying to be). I just....well it happened. Who cares? For me, there was a lot more of a movie to enjoy.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#136231: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:43:38 AM

Count me as one of the people who wasn't really bothered by the scene one way or another.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#136232: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:45:12 AM

Guys. Guys guys guys guys guys guys guys. That's not the point.

That's not the point.

If you're trying to dissect it logically and rationally you're already light-years off the point.

It's just a Girl Power bit for girls and women watching to latch onto in the midst of this mostly-male action movie. That's it. That's it.

I'm sorry to sound like an ass but it's nakedly obvious what the movie's doing and it's just like...c'mon.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#136234: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:48:14 AM

That answer is obvious and.. unsatisfactory to someone too used to thinking about works too deeply

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#136236: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:50:27 AM

I find the same narmfull and that it, I mean for what I read that happen because the actress wanted the scene to happen?

I find the kind of thign you kinda mock in a honest trailer and that it, move on.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Hawkeye86 Spirit of Battle from Classified (Searching for Spock) Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Spirit of Battle
#136237: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:51:33 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]I think most people are just saying they could have done a Girl Power bit that felt organic to the movie.

You and I remember Budapest very differently
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#136238: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:52:01 AM

And if it fulfilled that while making sense in-universe it wouldn't just make you question the logic of the scene instead.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#136239: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:53:41 AM

The "girl power" scene threw me right out of my suspension of disbelief, and it took a minute for me to recapture it. I understand why it's there, but it was about as organic as a lump of plutonium.

It would have been better if there were simply more female representation in the MCU, full stop.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 27th 2021 at 12:54:23 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#136240: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:53:51 AM

Yeah, I'm with Watchtower. Instead of complaining that they shoehorned a Girl Power bit into the movie, why not complain that the rest of the film (and much of the franchise as a whole) mistreats its female characters so much that they felt the need to shoehorn a Girl Power bit into the movie?

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#136241: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:57:17 AM

I don't think those are that divorced. It feels shoehorned in part because it's in a franchise that isn't that feminist and specifically a movie that killed a woman and it made the guys sad.

Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 27th 2021 at 11:57:55 AM

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#136242: Oct 27th 2021 at 10:01:50 AM

I sure won't hesitate to call Endgame a bad movie in general. As I've probably pointed out before, something must've gotten away from the directors and screenwriters between their Captain America movies and their Avengers movies.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#136243: Oct 27th 2021 at 10:03:31 AM

One think we imo people should be aware of when it comes to representation in film is when studios treat diversity as a fad rather than simply something they need to do as a matter of course.

Scenes that scream "LOOK AT ALL THESE WOMEN WE'VE GOT! BOY, AREN'T WE DIVERSE?" cheapens the female characters utilized in such a way, because it shows that the studio is treating them less like characters and more like a showcases - and shows that at the end of the day, they're still not being treated the same as the male characters.

Especially given how the Thanos duology treated its predominant female characters in general (as Synchronicity said, the two are not mutually exclusive problems). If the ultimate fate of the major female characters in Marvel is to be killed off for the emotional pain of the male characters, while simultaneously the rest of the female characters who were only allowed supporting roles in the story (with even Carol ultimately being a bit character in Endgame) get shown off like trophies, that's a bad look which - at best - seems insincere.

At least we got good use out of Nebula, though.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 27th 2021 at 10:09:03 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#136245: Oct 27th 2021 at 10:15:46 AM

Yeah they would've probably still done the bit even if the duology (or even the franchise) had done better with its female characters. It's a 90s girlboss feminist feel-good moment as they pat themselves on the back for something still seen as a novelty in something still seen as primarily for boys. And the unfortunate reality is that still isn't entirely untrue today. So y'know, I don't really mind the scene that much anyway, and I don't think it's bad or shameful or anything if girls and women looked at that and still felt good about it, bullshit as it may be. It's all about pushing to be better, y'know?

So me, personally, I only really care about all the bad-faith chuds trying to screech about it as if it truly is some kind of novel move in "forced progressive"-ness and not, y'know, the simplest little gesture.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136246: Oct 27th 2021 at 10:23:09 AM

I find it kind of interesting that the Mandalorian did something similar to Endgame in regards to a female empowerment moment in Season 2's finale, only it was much better, a hell of a lot more subtle, and no one actually complained about it.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#136247: Oct 27th 2021 at 10:24:04 AM

Like I said, it's not the "forced wokeness" that bothered me (ugh, just typing that made me throw up a little) but how silly the scene is within the context of the film. Carol doesn't need any of their help, except maybe from Wanda who is powered by a different Infinity Stone.

That said, the final battle in Endgame is literally a series of set-piece vignettes of characters fighting each other without any real attempt to maintain a coherent sense of who is where or how they got there. So the scene isn't absurd, just jarring.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 27th 2021 at 1:25:21 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#136248: Oct 27th 2021 at 10:28:24 AM

What bugged me most about the scene is that hardly any of the women know each other.

The famous shot of the Avengers Assembled in New York felt triumphant because we had seen them overcome all manner of obstacles, outward and within, to become heroes. Endgame went out of its way to not involve many heroes in its main plot besides the first 6 (like, what reason did the Avengers have to not wait a day for Carol to show up and take Thor’s place in the Time Heist since he’s clearly in an emotionally bad place?) As such, the “A-Force” shot seemingly insisting these characters are vital and are so united felt untruthful.

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#136249: Oct 27th 2021 at 10:43:16 AM

Yeah, it's also partly that the male heroes get oodles more characterization than the female ones so we don't really have a justification/rationalization for why they're all suddenly united. Carol was the only person in the group to get her own solo movie - the only person who comes close to second in terms of development is Black Widow through Winter Soldier and she's dead by that point in the movie. I legitimately cannot remember who was in that shot (besides Carol, Okoye, and Wanda maybe? Wanda because of WandaVision so that's definitely retroactive) because the writers didn't give them a whole lot of stuff to do.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#136250: Oct 27th 2021 at 10:49:10 AM

Don't forget Pepper Potts, who gets loads of characterization for being Tony's Love Interest.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Total posts: 186,763
Top