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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Yeah, you could immediately make that scene probably 50% better as a scene just by having it be "the female heroes rally around literally anyone besides Carol Danvers, the character we have gone out of our way to tout as one of, potentially the most powerful hero here outright".
That we're expected to believe Carol needs any kind of help from Shuri and Mantis immediately puts the scene at a disadvantage in terms of feeling even the least bit natural.
The poster who suggested that it should've been Wanda and Carol running interference for Peter might've been onto something. It would've been a neat little moment seeing as Wanda and Peter were on opposite sides of the conflict during Civil War.
I mean, we've see what happened the last two times that happened.
Okey Dokey!Eh. I can kinda buy it as sure Carol doesn't really need their help, but in this case, anything that lets her 100% focus on getting the glove to the van means extra insurance.
In fact, since Thanos was able to toss Carol around a bit despite her being stronger (and that's before he used the Power Stone) I'd argue it wasn't a poor choice for them to lend a hand. In fact I'd say their only mistake was that they didn't try to guard the van itself.
But yeah, even I was raising my eyebrow at the scene and saw it for what it was (and what it was trying to be). I just....well it happened. Who cares? For me, there was a lot more of a movie to enjoy.
One Strip! One Strip!Count me as one of the people who wasn't really bothered by the scene one way or another.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersGuys. Guys guys guys guys guys guys guys. That's not the point.
That's not the point.
If you're trying to dissect it logically and rationally you're already light-years off the point.
It's just a Girl Power bit for girls and women watching to latch onto in the midst of this mostly-male action movie. That's it. That's it.
I'm sorry to sound like an ass but it's nakedly obvious what the movie's doing and it's just like...c'mon.
The "girl power" scene threw me right out of my suspension of disbelief, and it took a minute for me to recapture it. I understand why it's there, but it was about as organic as a lump of plutonium.
It would have been better if there were simply more female representation in the MCU, full stop.
Edited by Fighteer on Oct 27th 2021 at 12:54:23 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Yeah, I'm with Watchtower. Instead of complaining that they shoehorned a Girl Power bit into the movie, why not complain that the rest of the film (and much of the franchise as a whole) mistreats its female characters so much that they felt the need to shoehorn a Girl Power bit into the movie?
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I sure won't hesitate to call Endgame a bad movie in general. As I've probably pointed out before, something must've gotten away from the directors and screenwriters between their Captain America movies and their Avengers movies.
Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)One think we imo people should be aware of when it comes to representation in film is when studios treat diversity as a fad rather than simply something they need to do as a matter of course.
Scenes that scream "LOOK AT ALL THESE WOMEN WE'VE GOT! BOY, AREN'T WE DIVERSE?" cheapens the female characters utilized in such a way, because it shows that the studio is treating them less like characters and more like a showcases - and shows that at the end of the day, they're still not being treated the same as the male characters.
Especially given how the Thanos duology treated its predominant female characters in general (as Synchronicity said, the two are not mutually exclusive problems). If the ultimate fate of the major female characters in Marvel is to be killed off for the emotional pain of the male characters, while simultaneously the rest of the female characters who were only allowed supporting roles in the story (with even Carol ultimately being a bit character in Endgame) get shown off like trophies, that's a bad look which - at best - seems insincere.
At least we got good use out of Nebula, though.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 27th 2021 at 10:09:03 AM
Yeah they would've probably still done the bit even if the duology (or even the franchise) had done better with its female characters. It's a 90s girlboss feminist feel-good moment as they pat themselves on the back for something still seen as a novelty in something still seen as primarily for boys. And the unfortunate reality is that still isn't entirely untrue today. So y'know, I don't really mind the scene that much anyway, and I don't think it's bad or shameful or anything if girls and women looked at that and still felt good about it, bullshit as it may be. It's all about pushing to be better, y'know?
So me, personally, I only really care about all the bad-faith chuds trying to screech about it as if it truly is some kind of novel move in "forced progressive"-ness and not, y'know, the simplest little gesture.
Like I said, it's not the "forced wokeness" that bothered me (ugh, just typing that made me throw up a little) but how silly the scene is within the context of the film. Carol doesn't need any of their help, except maybe from Wanda who is powered by a different Infinity Stone.
That said, the final battle in Endgame is literally a series of set-piece vignettes of characters fighting each other without any real attempt to maintain a coherent sense of who is where or how they got there. So the scene isn't absurd, just jarring.
Edited by Fighteer on Oct 27th 2021 at 1:25:21 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"What bugged me most about the scene is that hardly any of the women know each other.
The famous shot of the Avengers Assembled in New York felt triumphant because we had seen them overcome all manner of obstacles, outward and within, to become heroes. Endgame went out of its way to not involve many heroes in its main plot besides the first 6 (like, what reason did the Avengers have to not wait a day for Carol to show up and take Thor’s place in the Time Heist since he’s clearly in an emotionally bad place?) As such, the “A-Force” shot seemingly insisting these characters are vital and are so united felt untruthful.
Yeah, it's also partly that the male heroes get oodles more characterization than the female ones so we don't really have a justification/rationalization for why they're all suddenly united. Carol was the only person in the group to get her own solo movie - the only person who comes close to second in terms of development is Black Widow through Winter Soldier and she's dead by that point in the movie. I legitimately cannot remember who was in that shot (besides Carol, Okoye, and Wanda maybe? Wanda because of WandaVision so that's definitely retroactive) because the writers didn't give them a whole lot of stuff to do.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my TumblrDon't forget Pepper Potts, who gets loads of characterization for being Tony's Love Interest.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I never really got all the harping on that scene. Yeah, it's pandering and cheesy as hell. So? People really acting like they've never seen a 90s feminist "GIRL POWER" bit like that before? Really?
Keep in mind, I do agree that it can be dissected from a feminist angle, but that wasn't where that backlash was coming from. No, it was mainly from those types whinging over how the scene was "forced SJW pandering" or some shit. Tobias is right, nobody calls it "pandering" when it's a bunch of white dudes.