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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#136201: Oct 26th 2021 at 9:03:25 PM

> Simon Russell Beale (Into the Woods, The Death of Stalin) has a part in Thor: Love and Thunder.

(*cue Kevin Feige frantically trying to buy as many playbills of The Lehman Trilogy as he can while Benny Hill music plays in the background*)

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Oct 26th 2021 at 12:03:34 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#136202: Oct 26th 2021 at 10:29:17 PM

"Kevin's initial pitch was that it was Toy Story 3 - a 'they're all gonna jump into a furnace together' concept,"

Has Kevin Feige actually watched the ending of Toy Story 3? I swear, the way some people talk about that movie, you'd think it ends with the incinerator scene.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#136203: Oct 26th 2021 at 10:31:44 PM

Rogue Infinity: A Marvel Story

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136204: Oct 26th 2021 at 10:40:44 PM

Holy fuck that Guardians game has over 30 licensed songs. I can't imagine how much that must have cost especially with everything else about the game looking as expensive as it is.

Hey thats kinda funny. Due to the movies heavily associating the franchise with 80s music, now every major installment has to shell out considerable amounts of money to be able to pay for a catalogue of 80s songs.

Man thats an expensive extravagance.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#136205: Oct 27th 2021 at 12:07:40 AM

At least as long as Gunn's Guardians are prominent.

AdeptGaderius Otaku from the Anime World Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Otaku
#136206: Oct 27th 2021 at 2:59:14 AM

On the other note, the Marvel Cinematic Universe should create a Western superhero film because the MCU has already explores spy/political thriller (Captain America: The Winter Soldier), comedic space opera (Guardians of the Galaxy) and family drama (Black Panther).

The comics already have Old West/Wild West characters like Rawhide Kid, Apache Kid, Two-Gun Kid, Arizona Annie, Phantom Rider and the Outlaw Kid. All of these characters haven't seen an adaption in any medium ever since.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136207: Oct 27th 2021 at 3:07:01 AM

[up][up] I just want them to be a bit more creative with the characters than just 1:1 copies. Its like Heath Ledger Joker was great, but its not like ya want every Joker to be Heath Ledger ya know.

Like it be cool if they say mixed Quill's veteran soldier past in the comics with his MCU present rogue merc lifestyle, that could lead to some interesting ideas.

[up] A couple years ago Marvel did try to push this character Red Wolf in the comics who is a cowboy. He was even the star of an AU book that featured Marvel characters in the old west. He's also Native American which is cool.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 27th 2021 at 3:08:23 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#136208: Oct 27th 2021 at 4:22:50 AM

Honestly, the ending where all six of the Avengers die together would've been much more thematically satisfying than what we got. It'd be sad, yes, but it'd be an appropriate and earned sadness in my opinion. Yes, you couldn't milk the survivors for spinoffs afterwards, but I was kind of expecting them to go for such an end given how Infinity War ended, and I've long thought that it would've made plenty of sense for the main six to die together in a glorious last stand together.

Edited by AlleyOop on Oct 27th 2021 at 7:56:32 AM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#136209: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:05:09 AM

I remember me and my friends speculated going into Infinity War that the original six wouldn't survive the duology.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136210: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:10:10 AM

Paradoxically part of me likes how the conclusion was not totally satisfying narratively speaking.

It feels a bit more…real that the conclusion to the whole conflict does not really feel like a proper conclusion.

While it still has a sense of something ending, it also leaves you with this sense of disquieting unease that there is more trouble on the horizon.

As Doctor Manhattan said, nothing ever ends.

Edited by M84 on Oct 27th 2021 at 8:12:00 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#136211: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:33:27 AM

Six original Avengers. Six Infinity Gems. And it's already been established that you can split the physical toll of the Gems between multiple people to make it survivable.

How you can not do something with that is beyond my comprehension.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136212: Oct 27th 2021 at 5:40:25 AM

Probably a sum of the parts being greater thing. The Snap and undoing it both required the power of all six Stones to be unified in one device and focused by one mind.

They probably also wanted to replicate the conditions of the original use of the Stones as closely as possible to increase the chances of successfully undoing it. They were already kind of cutting corners as is with a jury rigged Nano Gauntlet instead of the original Infinity Gauntlet.

Edited by M84 on Oct 27th 2021 at 8:52:31 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#136213: Oct 27th 2021 at 6:28:09 AM

Hey thats kinda funny. Due to the movies heavily associating the franchise with 80s music, now every major installment has to shell out considerable amounts of money to be able to pay for a catalogue of 80s songs.

What's really funny is despite how heavily the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise leans into '80s nostaglia, none of the songs from the films are actually from the '80s. They're mostly from the '60s and '70s. The closest '80s song in the film is "Escape (The Pina Colada Song)", which came out in 1979.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#136214: Oct 27th 2021 at 8:30:10 AM

‘Avengers: Endgame’ Producer Admits Studio Worried That Female Heroes Scene Was Too Pandering

Honestly I agree with the sentiment to some degree. I mean, all the women just happened to be in the exact same location on the battlefield at that exact moment? Wanda, Natasha and Okoye vs. Proxima Midnight in Infinity War felt more organic.

Okey Dokey!
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#136215: Oct 27th 2021 at 8:32:07 AM

Yeah, I feel like it should have just been the two heavy hitters (Carol and Wanda) covering for Peter.

The legend has returned.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#136216: Oct 27th 2021 at 8:40:15 AM

It was a little "pandering", if you define pandering as making scenes specifically meant to empower and be enjoyed by a particular group of people. But given that this is a film in which they sidelined one of their biggest female characters and shoved another one into a fridge, in a direct parallel to a scene in the previous film where a third of their biggest female characters got shoved into a fridge, I'd argue that Endgame as a whole wasn't pandering enough.

No one ever calls empowerment scenes for white men "pandering".

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 27th 2021 at 8:40:37 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#136217: Oct 27th 2021 at 8:47:34 AM

I barely even noticed in the film proper. I felt that scene was a extreme storm in a teacup with people either thinking it was too much "pandering" or thinking it was a stupid pat in the back after the MCU's spotty record with female heroes. I just thought it was a nice little moment and there it goes.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#136218: Oct 27th 2021 at 8:47:37 AM

I have seen some people argue that the scene was undeserved. As in, "if you want to celebrate all your female heroes, give them so more damn movies".

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#136219: Oct 27th 2021 at 8:49:28 AM

I don't think pandering is even the right word, at least how it was received in my circles; what's a word that means 'awkward corporate feminism shoehorn'?

Kinda like brands that put on rainbow profile pictures during Pride Month but do fuck-all for the gays the rest of the year. Like, you're blatantly doing it for cool liberal credit, so it comes off as cringey.

Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 27th 2021 at 10:50:01 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136220: Oct 27th 2021 at 8:52:30 AM

In a vacuum it'd be fine. But as [up] mentioned, their behavior the rest of the time just makes it come off as hollow.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#136221: Oct 27th 2021 at 8:52:30 AM

I'd say it's just awkward, maybe shallow, but the latter feels it'd make it sound worse than it's supposed to be.

Wake me up at your own risk.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#136222: Oct 27th 2021 at 8:53:05 AM

This article from The Mary Sue, I think, summarizes it pretty well:

So, when Avengers: Endgame gave us a big, shiny, all-caps GIRL POWER moment, I’ll admit, I got more than a little emotional. Seeing Okoye, Valkyrie, Mantis, Shuri, Hope, Wanda, Gamora, Nebula, and a suited-up Pepper Potts all come to Carol’s aid to help her get the Infinity Gauntlet across the battlefield brought actual tears to my eyes.

Which is a pretty ridiculous reaction, if I’m being honest with myself. I knew this was pure pandering. Logistically speaking, none of those characters offers much help to mega-powerful Captain Marvel, and given the treatment of Carol and the other women in this movie alone, it’s hard to see this moment as anything but pure, hollow lip service.

"Hollow lip service" is, I think, a better criticism than "pandering" (though the author does use the term). Pandering is a complaint commonly attributed from people outside the target demographic, complaining about the source creating material for the target demographic. Hollow lip service, on the other hand, is a complaint from people within the target demographic, complaining that this tiny bone-throwing gesture isn't enough.

That's the kind of thing that makes moments like this difficult to criticize: because two very different groups of people hate these kinds of things. The people feeling condescended to by a source material that has repeatedly shown it doesn't actually care about them, and the people who just want everything to glorify straight white men and loathe any instance of a minority group being given anything.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 27th 2021 at 8:55:43 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#136223: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:01:06 AM

The problem with this scene is that the girls make up less than a quarter of the heroes, but all conveniently line up for this one shot. It's unnatural, and leave the audience wondering what the chances of this happening are when you have all of these male heroes everywhere, unless you assume the women all somehow magically gravitated toward the people of the same sex they had never met before.

And then, as you're thinking how weird it is for them to come together when there are so few females there compared to the men, you realize just how few females there are compared to the men.

And that's the biggest problem with scene in my opinion. It's a couple white male directors directing a scene written by white male writers for a white male producer, all patting themselves on the back for having a fraction of the characters in this battle be women by awkwardly lining them up in the middle of a battlefield.

Edited by dmcreif on Oct 27th 2021 at 12:02:04 PM

Okey Dokey!
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#136224: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:08:45 AM

Empire Magazine officially confirms The Lizard, Sandman and Electro are in No Way Home.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#136225: Oct 27th 2021 at 9:10:04 AM

let's hope the film doesn't become too crowded with villains

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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