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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
What specifically is the Marvel formula that isn’t just Hollywood action trends
Forever liveblogging the AvengersRe- Guardians-
The Creative Committee objection to the 'twist' makes zippo sense, if the twist is Peter's dad being evil/mad...that's from the ORIGINAL COMICS. J'Son was never a good man or a nice one, he ranged from evil/cruel to outright mad, most comic readers were kinda of bracing for that point as is. Especially post the 'Jackass' descriptor from Yondo at the end of Vol 1.
Y'know, I get that people sometimes get weary of seeing the same mold of movie over and over again; I really do. But people plainly appreciate the "formula" since it makes the MCU more successful than literally everyone else. And it's not like they don't try and be as diverse as they can, especially when you look at works like Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Panther or WandaVision.
Okey Dokey!"Tony would have found out eventually. Zemo just needed SOMEONE who's not Bucky or Steve to get to Siberia. "
It dosent really matter since the conflict was spark pretty much because nobody set bucky, cap and tony were there to ensure it fold out as it did, wanda would pretyt much sudue tony or vision, hell have someone dies in the fight there wont be a way the video would do something.
"Had the figth went diferently, he could just stealth his way out with the video and reveal it to Tony in a better time, or depending on who got to Siberia, let out the super soldiers as distractions while he gets away with the video."
That is asuming he can just move away, considering he just took a flight to siberia and was plaing on killing himself I dont think zemo really though he could just sneak away and is not like he can really.
If anything im baffle on many people think zemo as typical comic villian who can just get away and try again with littl effort, specially since the movie try to put is habilites as simple human spy.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"To hear people tell it, jokes, a grayish color palette, and a third act that relies a lot on CGI and probably a climactic fight against the Evil Counterpart.
IMO the issue is not a unique recipe-book type formula as much as it is a 'made by committee' feeling, in which they tend to play it safe with their scripts, remain family-friendly, and everything (Phase III onwards) has to reference some other thing. And everything they put out now has the baggage of all the previous movies. Like the Black Widow plot beats were probably done by a zillion times by non-Marvel action films, but its didn't really bring anything new to the table that its MCU predecessors didn't already do (female lead? done! focus on family? done! Russian conspiracy plot? done!).
Anecdote: I saw F9 the same blissful pre-Delta variant Hope Spot weekend as BW. From a technical perspective BW is probably a better movie. But the jaw-dropping value of watching Ludacris drive a car in space is an entertainment high BW could not match. Three months on and somehow, I remember more of F9.
(I also think the movies should be less gray.)
Respectfully, the MCU is not that diverse. With that selection, I wasn't sure if you meant minority representation-wise, which, no (Black Panther being the extreme outlier), or genre-wise, which, also no (like just in JANUARY people were going like lol what is a sitcom?). Perhaps we are at a tipping point where they're ready to be full-on weird, but for the most part their Genre Mashups thus far have played it safe (even Wandavision devolved into a Kamehameha-fest at the end), and at this point I think I'd rather watch, say, an original heist movie than rewatch Ant-Man.
Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 24th 2021 at 7:22:29 AM
...no....no....they didn't really put the cars in space did they?
...no...no....how....no.....
One Strip! One Strip!Not even jokes in general, it's jokes that heavily deflate the mood or aren't really all that funny. There's multiple examples I can think of (that one awful bathroom gag in Homecoming, most of Drax's "comedy" in Vol. 2 and Infinity War, everything about Alexei in Black Widow, damn near everything Joss Whedon wrote...). It's just really annoying and not all that funny. It feels like a bad attempt at trying to remake the comedy of the original Iron Man and failing.
Too much comedy in the middle of serious scenes. Really robs them of sincerity and pathos.
Yeah, it's an annoying trend. It's just heavily associated with Marvel from what I've seen. Mind, I genuinely don't know if this trend started with Marvel, but everybody blames Marvel and Disney for it.
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I'm just gonna assume you're screwing with me for the sake of my sanity.
That being said, when I watch F9 and it really happens, I'm probably just gonna flatscreen.
....getting back to Marvel....um.....well.....
So, how do we think the Eternals will be acting in the future? I feel like the movie may end with them taking a more active role in things beyond their initial marching orders. Perhaps the Deviants force them to work more closely with the heroes of earth, or maybe something happens that renders their old orders moot.
One Strip! One Strip!Disney definitely uses it a lot; I remember ill-placed humor being one of the things that made Raya and the Last Dragon off for me. And it is fair to be concerned that the cultural and financial dominance of Disney and its properties leads to, well, probably not the death of art, but more people trying to emulate those factors.
I think it's easy to complain about Marvel's style because they've been releasing content for over a decade, breaking up the traditional popular big-budget blockbusters that usually have a trilogy or so at most. Like some other people have said, they're following the trends of what's popular with general audiences, whether or not people actually enjoy them.
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."I am impressed by the apparent designs of the Deviants. Like I read both the Kirby and Gillen books and the Deviants are just like these little goblin-faced freaks that individually offer no threat to the Eternals. There is a lot of emphasis on how unlucky they are in the gene pool who despite relying on weapons and overwhelming numbers, they don't really look menacing or cool.
Meanwhile the movie just turns them into these eldritch looking monsters that requires multiple Eternals to take them down, its a Hell of a lot cooler.
Edited by slimcoder on Oct 24th 2021 at 6:25:41 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
I remember hearing elsewhere that the MCU Deviants are meant to evoke mythological monsters in the same way that the Eternals themselves evoke mythological heroes.
One of the recent trailers (forget which one) showed Gilgamesh fist-fighting an explicitly bull-like Deviant that I'm pretty sure is supposed to evoke Enkidu, which is...honestly pretty neat.
"Mixed" is kinda being really harsh, considering the RT score is currently at 72%, which is just a bit higher than Zack Snyder's Justice League, and is likely stay around there. Until release we've yet to see how audiences will take to it, and even then this movie doesn't have a fraction of the Troubled Production woes that plagued Thor: The Dark World.
Everything I'm hearing suggests it may well end up like the Snyderverse: a major studio fully throwing their weight and IP behind an aggresively auteurist vision, regardless of how commercially viable it truly is. And say what you will about Feige and his MCU Machine, he is not one to be reactionary, especially at the expense of other creators, especially given this entire project was Zhao's baby.
Edited by Watchtower on Oct 24th 2021 at 9:36:12 AM
It’s interesting that out of all the Eternals characters, the breakout characters was the Celestials themselves. They’ve since graduated into major figures into general Marcel mythology and are generally referenced without any mention of the Eternals and Deviants.
It sorta mimics Darkseid’s own popularity on the New God though to a lesser extent as while he is the most well know New God his appearances always include other New God characters so it’s not like he’s separated himself from them like the Celestials or even Thanos have.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."![]()
Makes sense. The Eternals and Deviants are just costumed superhumans at the end of the day, and Marvel had tons of those already.
The Celestials? They're these awesome Kirby-esque alien robot space gods. At the time they were something wholly unique in comics.
Sure, they've arguably been over-used to the point of being something of a joke in the comics, but still.
Edited by M84 on Oct 24th 2021 at 10:06:32 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised

![[up] [up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png)
All the reviews I read say it does push against its Marvel formula, but doesn't escape it. A lot of reviews seem to call it basically "a movie at war with itself" with Zhao's more auteur approach fencing against the MCU formula to a chaotic, if ambitious, result.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."