TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#136051: Oct 24th 2021 at 4:17:57 PM

[up][up] All the reviews I read say it does push against its Marvel formula, but doesn't escape it. A lot of reviews seem to call it basically "a movie at war with itself" with Zhao's more auteur approach fencing against the MCU formula to a chaotic, if ambitious, result.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136052: Oct 24th 2021 at 4:20:59 PM

There's a weirdness to being too much of a Marvel movie is now a consistent flaw.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#136053: Oct 24th 2021 at 4:23:20 PM

What specifically is the Marvel formula that isn’t just Hollywood action trends

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#136054: Oct 24th 2021 at 4:27:54 PM

Re- Guardians-

The Creative Committee objection to the 'twist' makes zippo sense, if the twist is Peter's dad being evil/mad...that's from the ORIGINAL COMICS. J'Son was never a good man or a nice one, he ranged from evil/cruel to outright mad, most comic readers were kinda of bracing for that point as is. Especially post the 'Jackass' descriptor from Yondo at the end of Vol 1.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#136055: Oct 24th 2021 at 4:28:21 PM

There's a weirdness to being too much of a Marvel movie is now a consistent flaw.

Y'know, I get that people sometimes get weary of seeing the same mold of movie over and over again; I really do. But people plainly appreciate the "formula" since it makes the MCU more successful than literally everyone else. And it's not like they don't try and be as diverse as they can, especially when you look at works like Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Panther or WandaVision.

Okey Dokey!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#136056: Oct 24th 2021 at 4:31:36 PM

"Tony would have found out eventually. Zemo just needed SOMEONE who's not Bucky or Steve to get to Siberia. "

It dosent really matter since the conflict was spark pretty much because nobody set bucky, cap and tony were there to ensure it fold out as it did, wanda would pretyt much sudue tony or vision, hell have someone dies in the fight there wont be a way the video would do something.

"Had the figth went diferently, he could just stealth his way out with the video and reveal it to Tony in a better time, or depending on who got to Siberia, let out the super soldiers as distractions while he gets away with the video."

That is asuming he can just move away, considering he just took a flight to siberia and was plaing on killing himself I dont think zemo really though he could just sneak away and is not like he can really.

If anything im baffle on many people think zemo as typical comic villian who can just get away and try again with littl effort, specially since the movie try to put is habilites as simple human spy.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#136057: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:17:57 PM

What specifically is the Marvel formula that isn’t just Hollywood action trends

To hear people tell it, jokes, a grayish color palette, and a third act that relies a lot on CGI and probably a climactic fight against the Evil Counterpart.

IMO the issue is not a unique recipe-book type formula as much as it is a 'made by committee' feeling, in which they tend to play it safe with their scripts, remain family-friendly, and everything (Phase III onwards) has to reference some other thing. And everything they put out now has the baggage of all the previous movies. Like the Black Widow plot beats were probably done by a zillion times by non-Marvel action films, but its didn't really bring anything new to the table that its MCU predecessors didn't already do (female lead? done! focus on family? done! Russian conspiracy plot? done!).

Anecdote: I saw F9 the same blissful pre-Delta variant Hope Spot weekend as BW. From a technical perspective BW is probably a better movie. But the jaw-dropping value of watching Ludacris drive a car in space is an entertainment high BW could not match. Three months on and somehow, I remember more of F9.

(I also think the movies should be less gray.)

And it's not like they don't try and be as diverse as they can, especially when you look at works like Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Panther or Wanda Vision.

Respectfully, the MCU is not that diverse. With that selection, I wasn't sure if you meant minority representation-wise, which, no (Black Panther being the extreme outlier), or genre-wise, which, also no (like just in JANUARY people were going like lol what is a sitcom?). Perhaps we are at a tipping point where they're ready to be full-on weird, but for the most part their Genre Mashups thus far have played it safe (even Wandavision devolved into a Kamehameha-fest at the end), and at this point I think I'd rather watch, say, an original heist movie than rewatch Ant-Man.

Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 24th 2021 at 7:22:29 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#136058: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:23:36 PM

But the jaw-dropping value of watching Ludacris drive a car in space is an entertainment high BW could not match. Three months on and somehow, I remember more of F9.

...no....no....they didn't really put the cars in space did they?

...no...no....how....no.....

One Strip! One Strip!
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#136059: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:23:47 PM

To hear people tell it, jokes, a grayish color palette, and a third act that relies a lot on CGI and probably a climactic fight against the Evil Counterpart.

Not even jokes in general, it's jokes that heavily deflate the mood or aren't really all that funny. There's multiple examples I can think of (that one awful bathroom gag in Homecoming, most of Drax's "comedy" in Vol. 2 and Infinity War, everything about Alexei in Black Widow, damn near everything Joss Whedon wrote...). It's just really annoying and not all that funny. It feels like a bad attempt at trying to remake the comedy of the original Iron Man and failing.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136060: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:26:21 PM

That is a reoccurring problem in modern movies.

Too much comedy in the middle of serious scenes. Really robs them of sincerity and pathos.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#136061: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:27:05 PM

[up][up][up] With a lot of duct tape and old-timey diving suits, because the guys from Tokyo Drift are rocket scientists now. I didn't even say the best part, which is that they park it at the International Space Station.

Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 24th 2021 at 7:27:14 AM

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#136062: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:35:13 PM

That is a reoccurring problem in modern movies.

Too much comedy in the middle of serious scenes. Really robs them of sincerity and pathos.

Yeah, it's an annoying trend. It's just heavily associated with Marvel from what I've seen. Mind, I genuinely don't know if this trend started with Marvel, but everybody blames Marvel and Disney for it.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136063: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:37:49 PM

The Star Wars ST has it too.

Like the infamous your mom joke at the start of The Last Jedi or the "they fly" now bit from Rise of Skywalker.

Just terrible, terrible attempts at humor.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#136064: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:40:05 PM

[up][up]

I'm just gonna assume you're screwing with me for the sake of my sanity.

That being said, when I watch F9 and it really happens, I'm probably just gonna flatscreen.

....getting back to Marvel....um.....well.....

So, how do we think the Eternals will be acting in the future? I feel like the movie may end with them taking a more active role in things beyond their initial marching orders. Perhaps the Deviants force them to work more closely with the heroes of earth, or maybe something happens that renders their old orders moot.

One Strip! One Strip!
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#136065: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:43:27 PM

Yeah, it's an annoying trend. It's just heavily associated with Marvel from what I've seen. Mind, I genuinely don't know if this trend started with Marvel, but everybody blames Marvel and Disney for it.

Disney definitely uses it a lot; I remember ill-placed humor being one of the things that made Raya and the Last Dragon off for me. And it is fair to be concerned that the cultural and financial dominance of Disney and its properties leads to, well, probably not the death of art, but more people trying to emulate those factors.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136066: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:48:03 PM

I think it's easy to complain about Marvel's style because they've been releasing content for over a decade, breaking up the traditional popular big-budget blockbusters that usually have a trilogy or so at most. Like some other people have said, they're following the trends of what's popular with general audiences, whether or not people actually enjoy them.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136067: Oct 24th 2021 at 5:49:09 PM

I am impressed by the apparent designs of the Deviants. Like I read both the Kirby and Gillen books and the Deviants are just like these little goblin-faced freaks that individually offer no threat to the Eternals. There is a lot of emphasis on how unlucky they are in the gene pool who despite relying on weapons and overwhelming numbers, they don't really look menacing or cool.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/4485214054_6857e5d008_b.jpg

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/deviants_28homo_descendus29_from_eternals_vol_1_3_0001.jpg

Meanwhile the movie just turns them into these eldritch looking monsters that requires multiple Eternals to take them down, its a Hell of a lot cooler.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 24th 2021 at 6:25:41 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#136068: Oct 24th 2021 at 6:16:26 PM

[up] I remember hearing elsewhere that the MCU Deviants are meant to evoke mythological monsters in the same way that the Eternals themselves evoke mythological heroes.

One of the recent trailers (forget which one) showed Gilgamesh fist-fighting an explicitly bull-like Deviant that I'm pretty sure is supposed to evoke Enkidu, which is...honestly pretty neat.

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#136069: Oct 24th 2021 at 6:27:04 PM

I hope the mixed reviews don't get Chloe canned from the next film.

Just Makima.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#136070: Oct 24th 2021 at 6:35:43 PM

[up] "Mixed" is kinda being really harsh, considering the RT score is currently at 72%, which is just a bit higher than Zack Snyder's Justice League, and is likely stay around there. Until release we've yet to see how audiences will take to it, and even then this movie doesn't have a fraction of the Troubled Production woes that plagued Thor: The Dark World.

Everything I'm hearing suggests it may well end up like the Snyderverse: a major studio fully throwing their weight and IP behind an aggresively auteurist vision, regardless of how commercially viable it truly is. And say what you will about Feige and his MCU Machine, he is not one to be reactionary, especially at the expense of other creators, especially given this entire project was Zhao's baby.

Edited by Watchtower on Oct 24th 2021 at 9:36:12 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136071: Oct 24th 2021 at 6:35:58 PM

[up][up] I think that depends more on if the film makes a profit on the box office. And like Watchtower said, Feige seems to be very flexible with the directors he works with.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 24th 2021 at 6:37:32 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136072: Oct 24th 2021 at 6:42:16 PM

Since the trailer already revealed a shot of Arishem the Judge, I'm wondering if other Celestials will also be introduced. It'd be bad for everyone if Exitar comes into play. Though tbh, the most interesting Celestial would be Tiamut the Dreaming Celestial.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136073: Oct 24th 2021 at 6:53:24 PM

It’s interesting that out of all the Eternals characters, the breakout characters was the Celestials themselves. They’ve since graduated into major figures into general Marcel mythology and are generally referenced without any mention of the Eternals and Deviants.

It sorta mimics Darkseid’s own popularity on the New God though to a lesser extent as while he is the most well know New God his appearances always include other New God characters so it’s not like he’s separated himself from them like the Celestials or even Thanos have.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#136074: Oct 24th 2021 at 6:53:34 PM

Re: humor in the MCU:

The term everyone's looking for is Bathos.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136075: Oct 24th 2021 at 7:05:13 PM

[up][up]Makes sense. The Eternals and Deviants are just costumed superhumans at the end of the day, and Marvel had tons of those already.

The Celestials? They're these awesome Kirby-esque alien robot space gods. At the time they were something wholly unique in comics.

Sure, they've arguably been over-used to the point of being something of a joke in the comics, but still.

Edited by M84 on Oct 24th 2021 at 10:06:32 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

Total posts: 186,763
Top