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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#135976: Oct 23rd 2021 at 5:41:10 AM

"Too many villains" is a criticism that closely resembles the issues of Spidey 3 and Amazing 2 enough to sound correct, but ultimately misses the real problem: too many plot threads which rarely interconnect.

Winter Soldier is a profound demonstration of this. It had five villains. But it didn't feel bloated and undercooked because those villains all gravitated around a single unifying story. They were not all given equal screen time and separate arcs.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 23rd 2021 at 5:42:21 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#135977: Oct 23rd 2021 at 5:56:06 AM

Infinity War also has 5 villains. If you count the entire Pro-Reg side, Civil War has 6 villains.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#135978: Oct 23rd 2021 at 6:05:32 AM

[up][up]Is more it have one villian: HYDRA manifested as evil band, but that happen because none of them ar eimportant enough to warrant their own arc, bucky of course got most of the screen time for being bucky.

Is not the same when you have a team like the thunderbolt for example.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#135979: Oct 23rd 2021 at 6:09:22 AM

Infinity War also has 5 villains.

But it's really more like one main villain (Thanos) while the Black Order are secondary villains.

Okey Dokey!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#135980: Oct 23rd 2021 at 6:15:04 AM

You could also look at it like Thanos is the protagonist and all the Avengers and Guardians are the antagonists, in which case there's A TON.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#135981: Oct 23rd 2021 at 6:17:28 AM

Yeah, that is accurate. Infinity War is pretty much Thanos's movie. It's his journey, his character development, his personal losses, his ultimate triumph.

The Avengers are more or less secondary characters.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 23rd 2021 at 3:17:47 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#135982: Oct 23rd 2021 at 6:25:51 AM

Yeah, Spider-Man 3 had to juggle Peter's relationship with MJ, his conflict with Eddie, being possessed by the Venom symbiote, finding out that Sandman was the one who actually killed Uncle Ben, and wrapping up the "Harry's turn to evil arc" that was set up since the first movie.

Amazing Spider-Man 2 has to juggle Peter and Gwen's relationship, introduce Electro, set up Peter and Harry's relationship (plus his turn to villainy by the end of the movie), the conspiracy surrounding Peter's parents and their deaths, and also the Rhino was there too.

Films like Winter Soldier benefit because despite having multiple villains, they're all working towards the same goal (except Batroc, but he's just there to get the plot going). There are other subplots (like Steve still adjusting to the present, the Bucky subplot, setting up the Falcon), but they're mostly in service to the main story: Steve vs. HYDRA. Infinity War was kind of similar; a lot of subplots (Tony and Strange travelling to Titan, the Avengers protecting Vision, Thor's quest for Stormbreaker, Gamora's relationship with her father), but they're all in reaction to the main conflict with Thanos. It doesn't feel overloaded because they're all connected like that.

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#135983: Oct 23rd 2021 at 7:04:55 AM

Speaking of No Way Home, Empire Magazine continues their coverage of what Jon Watts like to refer to as "Spider-Man: Endgame". Additional new photos are inside.

Edited by XMenMutant22 on Oct 23rd 2021 at 10:07:55 AM

DoubleOG (Apprentice)
#135984: Oct 23rd 2021 at 8:13:09 AM

[up] That second photo seems like good meme material.[lol]

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#135985: Oct 23rd 2021 at 8:13:57 AM

Yeah, it does grin

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#135986: Oct 23rd 2021 at 8:14:18 AM

Yeah, Spider-Man 3 had to juggle Peter's relationship with MJ, his conflict with Eddie, being possessed by the Venom symbiote, finding out that Sandman was the one who actually killed Uncle Ben, and wrapping up the "Harry's turn to evil arc" that was set up since the first movie.

Amazing Spider-Man 2 has to juggle Peter and Gwen's relationship, introduce Electro, set up Peter and Harry's relationship (plus his turn to villainy by the end of the movie), the conspiracy surrounding Peter's parents and their deaths, and also the Rhino was there too.

I'd say that Captain America: Civil War in many ways felt similar to TASM2 and SM3 in that regard: it felt like it was trying to be Captain America 3, Iron Man 4, and Avengers 2.5 plus be the origins movie for Spider-Man and Black Panther.

Okey Dokey!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#135987: Oct 23rd 2021 at 8:20:48 AM

Films like Winter Soldier benefit because despite having multiple villains, they're all working towards the same goal (except Batroc, but he's just there to get the plot going).

Even Batroc still services the same overarching plot thread as the others, just in a different way. He's still part of the whole Hydra conspiracy storyline. He's a mercenary that Nick Fury hired to attack S.H.I.E.L.D.'s own ship; it's a False Flag operation designed to give Fury a cover for sending Black Widow there, so she can steal sensitive data for him on that USB drive that drives the first act of the film.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#135988: Oct 23rd 2021 at 9:47:03 AM

[up] I admittedly only picked up on that detail later on, somehow missed it on the first viewing, but even then it still works for the same reason it works in the first episode of FatWS: because Batroc is a prime example of a Starter Villain and thwarting whatever job he's doing is perfect for an Action Prologue.

It's honestly kinda unfortunate that Crossbones and Klaw are dead and Shocker's a Spidey villain because that's a role the MCU could sorely fill more of and all three would be pretty good examples of such.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135989: Oct 23rd 2021 at 10:05:10 AM

[up] Yeah, I agree. Having small-time villains to balance out the really crazy world-ending/altering threats is super important, and we haven't gotten too many of those who survive to the end. The only currently living person I can think might be able to pull that off again is Sonny Birch, and he doesn't really have superpowers. He's just a regular evil businessman.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#135990: Oct 23rd 2021 at 10:06:20 AM

Got my work schedule for the week of the Eternals release. Looks like I'll be able to continue my pandemic tradition of watching movies at silly early matinee times on Friday.

Even on release weekend it's generally not too crowded when you go to a screening during normal people work/school hours.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#135991: Oct 23rd 2021 at 10:48:49 AM

The only currently living person I can think might be able to pull that off again is Sonny Burch, and he doesn't really have superpowers. He's just a regular evil businessman.

I'm actually reading a fic that posits a bit where Sonny Burch would go in a post-Blip world. smile

Okey Dokey!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135992: Oct 23rd 2021 at 11:04:01 AM

[up] Interesting idea. I'll take a look as well when I'm not slammed with midterms and and other projects.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135993: Oct 23rd 2021 at 1:59:48 PM

It’s one of my favorite bits of Shang-Chi is Wenwu just having lieutenant supervillains like Razorfist and Death Dealer under him that gave the fights more variety and progression.

[up]x7 Which as said before Civil War also makes it work because everything is in conjunction to a unified plot line.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 23rd 2021 at 4:34:16 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#135994: Oct 23rd 2021 at 4:32:21 PM

Armor Wars will be doing that thing of bringing past, smaller villains into the limelight somewhat, as both Hammer and Burch are slated to appear.

Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#135995: Oct 23rd 2021 at 6:59:58 PM

Possible spoiler:

A official poster for Ms. Marvel has been leaked.

It seemingly confirms a certain change that has been rumored for a while.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#135996: Oct 23rd 2021 at 7:10:05 PM

If true, I theorize the change is because limbs growing bigger can look kinda creepy when realistically detailed, something that’s been said about her powers when seen in the Avengers video game. I also assume this means they probably won’t adapt the part of her origin where she was involuntary transforming into other people.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135997: Oct 23rd 2021 at 7:14:12 PM

And maybe partly cause her original abilities might be too similar to Mr. Fantastic.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#135998: Oct 23rd 2021 at 7:33:10 PM

I’d buy it’s their way out of fully dealing with a powerset that is infamously difficult and expensive to depict adequately in live action.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 23rd 2021 at 7:50:09 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#135999: Oct 23rd 2021 at 7:55:40 PM

[up][up] This seems likeliest to me.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#136000: Oct 23rd 2021 at 8:00:50 PM

I don’t think it’s because of Mr. Fantastic because he’s not even in the MCU yet and Kamala’s had her embiggening powers for years without detrimental comparison. Budget seems more likely to me.


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