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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#135926: Oct 21st 2021 at 5:27:54 PM

Is he? Dunno. More anti-heroic, in my opinion

It's all relative, but Green Scar is considered one of the more heroic Hulks alongside Professor and Savage.

On the other end there's Joe Fixit and Devil Hulk.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135927: Oct 21st 2021 at 5:33:04 PM

Man it’s fun to think of say Carol takes Sentry’s place for the World War Hulk fight.

Plus the possible big power boost Hulk could get especially after getting his ass beat by Thanos.

It be a Hell of a fight.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135928: Oct 21st 2021 at 5:42:43 PM

[up][up][up] Yeah, but Wanda utterly loathes Stark. You can tell that even after joining up with the Avengers, she and Stark were never gonna get along. Especially not after he placed her under house arrest with Vision as a security enforcer. I have a feeling if anything, she would be rubbing his pain in out of spite.

I do hope that Wanda and Zemo get to meet up in the future someday. It would be a very interesting contrast between the two of them since they're both Sokovian like you said, and come from very different backgrounds. Plus, Zemo is constantly worried about the idea of super-soldiers playing God. How would he react to a being that's quite possibly more powerful than any god in the MCU? I wanna see that...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#135929: Oct 21st 2021 at 5:42:55 PM

Directors Anthony & Joe Russo were not happy about this potential change to "Captain America: Civil War." Joe Russo said, "We kept saying, "There's nothing interesting about that film. We're not here to make that movie. We're not interested in telling another superhero story.'"

They were absolutely right; the proposed change would have turned Civil War's third act to shit.

That said, this quote explains a lot about the Infinity duology.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135930: Oct 21st 2021 at 5:46:36 PM

[up] No kidding. And I'm glad that Marvel took the risk and did something really amazing and unexpected instead of being slaves to unfeeling Corrupt Corporate Executives who just want to sell toys.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 21st 2021 at 5:47:02 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#135931: Oct 21st 2021 at 6:37:16 PM

Yeah, but Wanda utterly loathes Stark. You can tell that even after joining up with the Avengers, she and Stark were never gonna get along. Especially not after he placed her under house arrest with Vision as a security enforcer. I have a feeling if anything, she would be rubbing his pain in out of spite.

I mean, to this day, I still wonder to some degree why Vision even went along with enforcing it given how close he'd grown attached to Wanda. Hell, I kinda wish we saw more of Vision interacting with the other Avengers besides Wanda. We barely even see much of him interacting with Tony, and Tony's technically Vision's father.

I do think Tony should've been called out a bit more harshly on this thing, especially considering what he was doing wasn't all that different from the internment of Nisei like Jim Morita during World War II (remember Morita's "I'm from Fresno, ace" crack when Steve freed the future Howling Commandos), and Steve actually saw it that way given his response of "Protection? Is that how you see this? This is protection? It's internment, Tony."

I do hope that Wanda and Zemo get to meet up in the future someday. It would be a very interesting contrast between the two of them since they're both Sokovian like you said, and come from very different backgrounds. Plus, Zemo is constantly worried about the idea of super-soldiers playing God. How would he react to a being that's quite possibly more powerful than any god in the MCU? I wanna see that...

Hell, there's the whole bit about revenge I think I've mentioned. Because the twins' motive for allying with Ultron was decades long dislike of Tony, after spending two days trapped in their apartment staring at that missile with a Stark Industries logo facing them. Zemo wants revenge for his family's death which he blames on all the Avengers, and his description of finding their bodies has parallels to the Maximoff twins' story.

Okey Dokey!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#135932: Oct 21st 2021 at 6:40:59 PM

Ehhh, I’m not going to say that Tony confining Wanda was at all good, but the Nisei were in far worse conditions than house arrest and hadn’t caused any disasters like Wanda had.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#135933: Oct 21st 2021 at 6:55:26 PM

I can see Vision justifying it as protecting her from the government and anybody else that might be mad by keeping her out of sight

She didn’t even want to leave until Vision started cooking food bad

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#135934: Oct 21st 2021 at 7:00:14 PM

It would have worked a lot better if he'd come to her openly and asked her what she wanted to do.

But Tony considering other people's opinions isn't much of a thing.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#135935: Oct 21st 2021 at 7:05:10 PM

There’s no evidence for this but it would make me laugh in a dark comedy way if Tony didn’t want to have that conversation and delegated it to Vision who definitely didn’t want to have that conversation so just didn’t and hoped it would never come up

“Oh no I’m one year old and I have social anxiety. Thanks a lot, Tony”

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#135936: Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:36:25 AM

Yeah, okay. Watching Thor: The Dark World and I reiterate what I said before: Thor's corner of the early MCU would have been vastly improved by a timeskip in the first Thor film. Thor's love for Midgard, his desire to return, his dissatisfaction with his life in Asgard, and his and Jane's mutual inability to move on.

It all works really well if you headcanon that Thor was on Earth for, like, five years or so. That he made a life for himself here in his exile, with Jane. They had a house. He had a garden. They were going to marry. It was peaceful in a way that his life as Prince of Asgard never was. He was genuinely happy, without ego and bluster and royal obligation getting in the way. And he left a piece of himself there when he returned to Asgard.

Insert that into the movies and both pre-Ragnarok Thor films dramatically improve in quality without even changing any of the scenes. So does Avengers 1, too; Loki's remarks about how he wants to take this world that Thor loves from him suddenly work.

These movies needed to be less True Love At First Sight and more... well, The Lion King.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:40:04 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#135937: Oct 22nd 2021 at 10:23:49 AM

Hmm. That is an interesting point. Thor being head-over-heels in love with Jane Foster falls flat as a plot element because they know each other for what, two days? In fairness, that's pretty much a stock trope in films, but that doesn't make it any less dumb.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#135938: Oct 22nd 2021 at 10:59:40 AM

Love has never been Marvel’s strong suit with the exception of Wanda and Vision.

The legend has returned.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#135939: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:09:29 AM

Hopefully, Love And Thunder can salvage the romance in Thor movies.

Personally, I'm hoping the title is referring to Korg and Thor's platonic friendship love, as was implied, as well as Valkyrie finding her Queen in Jane-Thor.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#135940: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:09:55 AM

I think you would have to alter, or at least add even more scenes, into Loki's plan though. We have the benefit of being able to alter how long the Odinsleep lasts for (and to be fair, five years for someone like Odin is like... a weekend spent sleeping off an especially bad hangover), but Loki's entire plan stretching across five years comes across as both unnecessary and makes it seem a lot more premeditated than I think was intended with the movie as is.

It would definitely lend a lot more impact to the Dark World and the Avengers movies without having to completely rewrite them, to be sure, and I do kind of wish they'd gone that way in hindsight.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#135941: Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:11:10 AM

Wanda and Vision benefit from the same thing as Tony and Pepper: their relationships develop offscreen and provide little in the way of direct onscreen conflict. The movies leave them in a position where we can assume they continue to interact from the end of this movie to the start of the next movie, so the relationships don't have to grow believably; we're just witnessing little snapshots of various points in them.

And because the relationships are able to develop offscreen between films, that means that they're just... there. Tony/Pepper and Wanda/Vision don't do things like, "Separated from Jane, Thor has spent the last years longing for her. He cannot enjoy anything of Asgard anymore, for his mind is only ever on her. She is his universe and he would abandon it all just to see her again." Or, for that matter, "And then Steve ragequit on the future and returned home so that he could finally get that dance."

Instead, they just get little cute fluffy moments and some brief dramatic bits (like Tony's failed attempt to call Pepper or Wanda having to fight Vision to protect Hawkeye). The relationships aren't the plot; just facets of the characters that grow over the franchise.

By contrast, Thor and Jane meet each other during Thor 1, lose each other in the same film, and never see each other again until The Dark World. It's even an explicit plot point that Thor did not visit Jane even once during his time on Midgard in Avengers. So, what you see is what you get. The scenes of them interacting in Thor 1 make up the totality of the relationship, and that makes Avengers and TDW a bit harder to swallow than it would be if, say, Tony/Pepper or Wanda/Vision were in their positions.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:16:46 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135942: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:18:58 PM

Makes me wonder how they're going to handle Sersi and Ikaris's relationship in Eternals.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#135943: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:19:39 PM

[handholding intensives]

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#135944: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:20:43 PM

[up]Hey, now, I don't think they're going to actually show something so lewd.

Edited by lbssb on Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:20:54 PM

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135945: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:20:52 PM

[up][up][up] Also Black Knight.

A bit of a love triangle there apparently.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:21:00 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135947: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:26:27 PM

Points to Zhao for fighting against censorship. Although I'm still worried that people are overhyping the film a bit.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#135948: Oct 22nd 2021 at 12:38:07 PM

I see Marvel read the Film Twitter “movies aren’t sexy anymore” Discourse. tongue

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#135949: Oct 22nd 2021 at 1:29:58 PM

Eternals has a sex scene?!

Well, that's just fucking great, pun and sarcasm intended. It was cringe-inducing enough with the gratuitous sex scenes in the Netflix shows. Even though I loved the shows overall I absolutely hated those parts.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135950: Oct 22nd 2021 at 1:33:23 PM

Man Thor 4 has a lot of stuff to it.

Jane gaining powers, her and Thor rekindling their romance, Gorr himself, Val finding her own romance.

Interesting how all that will go.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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