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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#135576: Oct 15th 2021 at 4:34:46 AM

[up][up]In Sandman's case, is it more because he's not that evil compared to other supervillains and therefore doesn't try to kill people?

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#135577: Oct 15th 2021 at 4:37:48 AM

[up]Ooooohhh nooooo. No no no no no.

Sandman is a bad man. Worse, he's as inconsistent and malleable as the sand that makes up his body. He's stuck in the Heel–Face Revolving Door meaning he can run the gamut from a Friendly Enemy to a murderous sociopath.

Edited by M84 on Oct 15th 2021 at 7:37:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#135578: Oct 15th 2021 at 4:49:59 AM

Guy kind of lives in the moment.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#135579: Oct 15th 2021 at 4:54:55 AM

Doesn't help that comic book writers change and so do his arcs. tongue

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#135580: Oct 15th 2021 at 4:57:37 AM

Sandman was unneeded in Spider-Man 3; Symbiont Spider Man going to town with Harry, then Venom making them team up, could have worked far better.

I will die on that hill. Even if the sand CGI was awesome, guy was kinda... meh.

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#135581: Oct 15th 2021 at 5:03:09 AM

[up][up][up][up]I see.

How do you blank out a text to protect spoilers? I don't want to wind up spoiling something regarding Venom unless it's no longer necessary.

Edited by KRider on Oct 15th 2021 at 5:05:16 AM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#135582: Oct 15th 2021 at 5:03:49 AM

Okay back onto the topic of the MCU rather than the 616,

Are we expecting any of the Eternals to die in their debut film? I know in the comics they're kind of unkillable because even if you destroy their bodies they can kind of just pop back into existence, but ten characters is a lot of characters, and Sprite namely is meant to be eternally young which doesn't work particularly well in film.

I would imagine MARVEL wouldn't kill Phatos and or Makkari given that it would be poor optics to kill the minorities demographics immedialy after introducing them.

I also expect Ajak to be at least incapacitated for the majority of the film, as if she's the main way to communicate with the Celestials, that's got to be prevented from trivialising the conflict.

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#135583: Oct 15th 2021 at 5:06:50 AM

[up]Gilgamesh maybe due to Big Guy Fatality Syndrome? Or if they're feeling really brave, kill off Ikaras given he looks like a Superman stand-in.

Edited by KRider on Oct 15th 2021 at 5:08:20 AM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#135584: Oct 15th 2021 at 5:17:00 AM

Where as Sersi seems to be the protagonist, Ikaris seems to be the poster boy, so it is tempting to kill him to make a big shock. Also he's in a love triangle to a guy who won't die (because he's got to have his black Knight oragin yet) which ups his chance of dying.

Gilgamesh does seem likely to get worfed regardless.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#135585: Oct 15th 2021 at 5:19:36 AM

Spidey's most dangerous and competent foes tend to be a lot lower on the super weight categories, Goblin, Doc Ock especially, later age Kingpin and even pre-heroic Venom can't compare in raw power to the elementals like Electro, Sandman and Hydroman and even Shocker at the top of his power levels. The former just have a better taste for villainy than the petty crooks.

Appropriately, Venom has recently gotten a rather large power boost since becoming a good guy.

I do wonder how the likes of Vulture, Rhino and Scorpion ever managed to keep up with comics Spidey.

You mean in terms of speed? Rhino and Scorpion are all pretty fast (in fact, Spider-Man was surprised by how fast Rhino was the first time they fought, which Rhino exploited). Vulture's flight gives him a lot of mobility and he's considerably smart himself.

jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The One Who Knows Many Things
#135586: Oct 15th 2021 at 5:22:25 AM

[up]x5 Write [[spoiler: ]] and then add spoiler-text, it should turn into this:

spoiler

For other text effects, you can look up those in "Show Markup Help" while in Add Post.

    Add Post 
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/screenshot_20211015_152253_orgadblockplusbrowser.jpg

Edited by jouXIII on Oct 15th 2021 at 3:25:55 PM

I assure you, I'm perfectly trustable person
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#135587: Oct 15th 2021 at 5:34:18 AM

[up][up] The likes of Vulture and Rhino etc manage to keep on keeping on pretty much by staying in their lane and not trying to do things they aren't suited for. Vulture f.e. uses mobility and speed to keep away from Spider-Man rather than get into a brawl, Rhino on the other hand is a very powerful thug who knows he's a thug and that he's often better served with a more calculating partner to do the actual planning.

Funnily enough, Spectacular Spider-Man (the show) pretty much had it so that neither of them really were particularly dangerous to Pete on their own after a while, but the Sinister Six meant that they didn't have to fight him on their own.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#135588: Oct 15th 2021 at 5:36:00 AM

I like Sandman as just a simple henchman at heart. Like he's not some kind of psychopath who wants to kill new york for shits and giggles, he just wants to rob banks.

And hey if you got sand powers, wouldn't you want to rob banks? No? Just me?

On the topic of Vulture, I think the issue is how the hell does an old man keep taking beatings from Spidey on a near daily basis?

Sure his suit gives him strength and durability but he's like 60-70 years old. There's no way that suit can let him keep up with Spider-Man.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 15th 2021 at 8:40:28 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#135589: Oct 15th 2021 at 5:46:07 AM

I liked Dan Slott's run in that aspect, in regards to Doc Ock.

It showed the horrible impact, that continuous beatings from a guy who can lift dozens of tons have on a regular human body, even if he holds back.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 15th 2021 at 2:46:32 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#135590: Oct 15th 2021 at 5:54:47 AM

And in Superior, Vulture's just fine. And then got violently beaten by Ock.

As I recall, Spider-Man almost killed Vulture out of rage at least twice before Superior. First was that time Vulture accidentally killed Aunt May's boyfriend, and then during Civil War, where after a fight, Vulture suffered an actual stroke and was left paralyzed, and then tried to goad Spidey into killing him and almost suffocated to death as a result.

And Vulture's still healthy after all that. Maybe he made a deal with Mephisto for good recuperation after every fight with Spidey?

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 15th 2021 at 8:56:15 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#135591: Oct 15th 2021 at 7:50:07 AM

Honestly might have something to do with the fact that Vulture managed to absorb life energy from an android to become young back in the 90's or so.

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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#135592: Oct 15th 2021 at 7:52:20 AM

Nineties animated series Vulture outright gave him Magitek powers that allowed him to drain life energy from other people for temporary youth and vitality.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#135593: Oct 15th 2021 at 7:56:43 AM

Part of it is apparently that as an old man in a power suit Spider Man has to hold way back because the man is all fragile bones underneath

In the Sinister Six novels Spider Man warned Vulture that when the Sinister Six band together and threaten civilians it forces him to stop holding back. Vulture scoffs and then Peter beats his ass in five seconds so fast that Toomes is on his ass before he realizes what’s going on

Unfortunately then Spidey does the web tether thing when Vulture flees and it gives the old man a chance to smack him against various buildings since the flight suit gives him a massive edge in the air

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#135594: Oct 15th 2021 at 8:01:32 AM

I think Vulture was mixed up with some other youth seeking old gangster there.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#135595: Oct 15th 2021 at 8:19:54 AM

[up]That would be Silvermane. In the nineties animated series, both tried to regain their youth using an artifact called the Tombstone of Time. Silvermane used the Tombstone directly, but couldn't control it. As a result, he regressed all the way to infancy.

Toomes was smarter about it. He invented a set of talons that were based on the Tombstone of Time's powers (hence why I said Magitek) that had the aforementioned Life Drain abilities.

The two storylines came to a head when Silvermane tried to age himself back to a young man by using the Tombstone to drain the years from someone. Unfortunately for Silvermane, the elderly Toomes took his original victim's place. The end result was that Silvermane was aged back to his original old age, while Toomes became a young man permanently (though he presumably would start aging normally again from then on).

Nineties animated series Vulture was thus the only villain in that series who got everything he wanted in the end. All Toomes wanted was to be young and strong again, and he got that.

Edited by M84 on Oct 15th 2021 at 11:24:01 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#135596: Oct 15th 2021 at 8:32:59 AM

[up]x10 Thanks

Regarding Venom, at least Tom Hardy's Venom may show up in No Way Home. They could have plucked a more villainous Venom like Topher Grace's.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#135597: Oct 15th 2021 at 9:46:19 AM

Tom Holland calls No Way Home a "conclusion" to the trilogy.

Holland said “We were all treating [No Way Home] as the end of a franchise, let’s say. I think if we were lucky enough to dive into these characters again, you’d be seeing a very different version. It would no longer be the Homecoming trilogy. We would give it some time and try to build something different and tonally change the films. Whether that happens or not, I don’t know. But we were definitely treating [No Way Home] like it was coming to an end, and it felt like it.”

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#135598: Oct 15th 2021 at 9:46:56 AM

Imagine if we get both. And they meet. New Venom's reaction will be priceless.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#135599: Oct 15th 2021 at 9:48:07 AM

in before Spider Carnage happens

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#135600: Oct 15th 2021 at 12:31:13 PM

The writing's been on the wall for a long time. Given how eager Sony was to take their Spider-ball and go home, Holland Spidey's days have been numbered. It was pretty obvious that No Way Home would be the last hurrah. The studios want to split; this one movie literally only exists because Holland fought for one more movie to wrap up what Far From Home set up.

So. Yeah. Spider-Man is leaving the MCU when this movie is done. It was the obvious thing to expect, but it's always nice to hear confirmation.

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