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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#135501: Oct 14th 2021 at 10:24:43 AM

Linda Cardellini is here after all (I love her; here's hoping the role is better than simply The Wife(tm), but I'm not holding out hope).

My understanding is that Hawkeye is living on his own in the comic run the show is based on, so having his family waiting for him back at the farm was probably the solution that avoided any pointless tragedy or family drama that could of distracted from the main plot.

I also vaguely remember something about her schedule not lining up, so they might of ended up not having her available to shoot much even if they wanted to.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#135502: Oct 14th 2021 at 10:41:00 AM

Given that this little reshuffling means episode 5 comes out right before No Way Home, I've seen the rumor mill come to life again thinking that the episode will have a Kingpin appearance (a rumor that is almost certainly still false, even if I can understand its roots given Echo started as Fisk's adoptive daughter in the comics).

Okey Dokey!
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#135503: Oct 14th 2021 at 10:49:44 AM

Could we stop talking about The Rumor Mill(tm) so much? It's not really productive to keep going "but it's probably not going to happen because xyz".

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#135504: Oct 14th 2021 at 10:59:30 AM

Speaking of concrete news, Entertainment Weekly recently did an interview with Tom Holland about his experiences working on No Way Home. Holland speaks highly about working with Alfred Molina, such as the actor's adaptability to his new CG tentacles and personality on set.

Holland: "It was really fun to watch him see how technology has advanced," Holland adds. "When he was making these films, the arms were puppets, and when we did it, they're all imaginary and CG. It was quite cool to see him relive it, but also relearn it."

Along with his final days shooting on set:

Holland: "We were all treating [No Way Home] as the end of a franchise, let's say," he adds. "I think if we were lucky enough to dive into these characters again, you'd be seeing a very different version. It would no longer be the Homecoming trilogy. We would give it some time and try to build something different and tonally change the films. Whether that happens or not, I don't know. But we were definitely treating [No Way Home] like it was coming to an end, and it felt like it."

Holland adds that he felt that finality while filming — especially during one of his last days on set, shooting a scene with Zendaya and Jacob Batalon (who's reprising his role as Peter's best friend Ned). When the scene finally wrapped, all three actors found themselves getting emotional.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135505: Oct 14th 2021 at 11:07:13 AM

[up] What annoys me is that many people are complaining about the tentacles being CGI, even though there's actually merit for getting rid of the puppet tentacles, plus the fact there were often times the tentacles were CG in Spider-Man 2 when they couldn't use the puppet tentacles. But whatever.

I'm beginning to wonder if this film will be the last Marvel Studios-Sony joint project for a bit. Maybe we have Spider-Man leave his home universe at the end to join Sony's world?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#135506: Oct 14th 2021 at 11:30:02 AM

My understanding is that Hawkeye is living on his own in the comic run the show is based on, so having his family waiting for him back at the farm was probably the solution that avoided any pointless tragedy or family drama that could of distracted from the main plot.

Let's be honest, it'd be pretty mean-spirited if Barton went through all that trouble to bring her and the kids back in Endgame, only for them to get divorced less than a year later.

Your explanation makes more sense.

What annoys me is that many people are complaining about the tentacles being CGI, even though there's actually merit for getting rid of the puppet tentacles, plus the fact there were often times the tentacles were CG in Spider-Man 2 when they couldn't use the puppet tentacles. But whatever.

This is different from say, the CGI used for Iron Man suits.

Edited by dmcreif on Oct 14th 2021 at 2:30:37 PM

Okey Dokey!
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#135507: Oct 14th 2021 at 11:38:43 AM

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if she left him after because it underscores that Clint didn't bring them back for selfish reasons. He wanted them to live. It was made abundantly clear (thanks to Vormir) that the point is them being back, not "them being back, and he lives a happy life with them."

Would I prefer that? Hell no, it's definitely worse. But it's thematically appropriate. It's not like they came back and then a bus landed on them.

As for the tentacles, also keep in mind Molina's 20 years older. That rig was presumably pretty taxing on him already. I think his performance would suffer if he had to deal with that today.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135508: Oct 14th 2021 at 11:39:34 AM

[up][up] Well I have seen some Iron Man fans complaining about how the suits became more CGI-layered as time went on. But I feel this is more about Raimi fanboys being blindsided by nostalgia. Yeah, I grew up watching that trilogy too, but I'm just happy to see Doc Ock back at all, y'know?

Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 14th 2021 at 12:12:42 PM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#135509: Oct 14th 2021 at 11:41:16 AM

I know it'll look the same but I'm still a bit bummed. At this point doing good practical effects seems like Doing It for the Art.

(Obligatory)

Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 14th 2021 at 1:41:50 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135510: Oct 14th 2021 at 12:16:45 PM

I kinda hope that we get a scene or two of Alfred Molina and Willem Dafoe arguing in a way that invokes Ham-to-Ham Combat. It'd be cool to see how much contrasts Norman and Otto in Raimi's trilogy, and would make the whole Sinister Six setup feel more organic.

Also, their actors already have great chemistry if this is anything to go by.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135511: Oct 14th 2021 at 12:30:02 PM

Huh so if the movie is being treated as an end to the franchise then that’s prolly it for the high school era.

If we get another movie hopefully Peter will move on to college next.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#135514: Oct 14th 2021 at 6:26:17 PM

"Mephisto demands"? He's a popular comic book villain with a ton of links to characters all over the place, the MCU is obviously going to put him in eventually, and it won't have anything to do with the group of idiots who thought he was going to be in Wandavision.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 14th 2021 at 6:28:06 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135515: Oct 14th 2021 at 6:50:27 PM

Yeah, it's just that ever since WandaVision, I've been seeing endless speculation all across the Disney+ shows as to whether [this character] is Mephisto. Even Falcon and Winter Soldier. Getting a little sick of it.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#135516: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:21:34 PM

I want to know, who saw the actual twist in Wandavision coming? Because there's no way that Agatha is that well-known of a character, I barely even recognized the name when the twist even happened, it caught me totally off-guard.

Be honest, it was just a bunch of Deep Lore comics nerds spoiling everyone on the twist ahead of time by pulling out such an obscure character from the depths of their vault-minds. Right?

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 14th 2021 at 7:22:16 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135517: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:23:17 PM

Probably. I certainly didn't know. And the theories surrounding it made me go "Eh. Could be." And then it turns out it was.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#135518: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:23:24 PM

Moment she was announced. Only part I didn't see coming was that the reveal would come with her own theme song. tongue

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#135519: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:25:35 PM

She's probably the best-executed twist villain in a long time, at least when it comes to the Disney umbrella.

The legend has returned.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#135520: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:26:04 PM

Even to people who did not know the character, the show did a fair bunch of foreshadowing that something's off about Agnes. It wasn't hard to triangulate that she'd turn out to be a antagonistic force in some fashion (though the Big Bad was more of a reach at the time).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#135521: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:27:32 PM

It's not too hard to see coming if you are aware Agatha Harkness exists. Agatha Harkness isn't too hard to pull from her name, and that iconic oval brooch that consistently remains on her person no matter the decade is somewhat telling.

I'll admit I briefly had doubts when she was (pretending to be) just another victim of Wanda's mind control in the Halloween episode, but I was pretty suspicious of her by episode 2 or 3.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#135522: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:31:29 PM

My reaction to the reveal was basically:

"Oh, no way, she's... Agatha Harkness? I guess I might have heard that name before, maybe. She must be someone from the comics."

I watch Marvel stuff with my mom, she usually turns to me for the comics knowledge, and I was just as lost as her on that.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 14th 2021 at 7:32:00 AM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#135523: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:33:38 PM

Yeah it wasn't that obscure of a twist, but it was very well executed.

It's also one of those meta knowledge things where Kathyrn Hahn was never just gonna be the nosy neighbor.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#135524: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:35:24 PM

I dunno, I feel like she and Alioth are the most obscure Marvel characters ever put in the MCU. Maybe the Guardians of the Galaxy came close when they were first adapted, and now the Eternals might match them, but the MCU is scraping gold off the bottom of the Marvel comics barrel.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 14th 2021 at 7:37:16 AM

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#135525: Oct 14th 2021 at 7:37:28 PM

Not even remotely close when there's references like Bert Hindel. Agatha Harkness was a mentor for Wanda and a nanny for Franklin Richards, she's not a headliner but I certainly wouldn't call her "the most obscure".


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