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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#135376: Oct 12th 2021 at 10:00:27 AM

Avatar itself is an incredibly derivative work, I don't think this'll be a big issue.

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135377: Oct 12th 2021 at 11:08:45 AM

@dmcreif You do know Avengers Disassembled was one of those character assassination stories right?

Wanda has been treated terribly generally by both the Avengers and the X-Men. On the formers side she’s just a hysterical woman and on the latter she’s defined by her relationship to her father.

And even then why the Hell would they adapt those stories for Wanda that would make her look bad? You do know that Wanda Vision was partly inspired by House of M and simply used the part about her warping reality to add to her character instead of it being disservice to her.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#135378: Oct 12th 2021 at 11:59:14 AM

Indeed.

I'm pretty back and forth on whether Wanda being a mutant still needs to be a thing or not (as well as whether she still needs to be the daughter of Magneto, as it arguably doesn't add much to her since I hate him has been her default relationship with him and his always totally fails to mend that gap), but since Wandavision already had her warp reality and all that, they can arguably focus on other parts of her character.

I agree that we need to avoid all the shit she's been through with both the Avengers and the X-men in the comics. I'm hoping the MCU will treat her better (though the Westview debacle means she's gonna have some well deserved in-universe mistrust once it gets out).

One Strip! One Strip!
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#135379: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:04:44 PM

I just hope they finally undo the retcon in the comics that they aren't mutants bEcAuSe McU sYnErGy DuRr.....

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#135380: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:06:27 PM

The films themselves don't too heavily follow the comics,so maybe.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135381: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:08:11 PM

[up][up] The funny thing is that Marvel won out in the end making the whole thing a waste of time.

Like how they killed off Quicksilver due to his acclaim in Days of Future Past but that was pretty much the highlight of the character’s appearances as he got steadily demoted in each movie until he was effectively a background character in Dark Phoenix.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 12th 2021 at 12:20:40 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#135382: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:20:05 PM

Its going to take a LOT of work to wash the taste of Fox's Xmen out of people's collective mouths,I swear they made them purposefully bad sometimes

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#135383: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:26:44 PM

Not really. They just clung to their license for a bit too long, and got gradually worse.

But even then, at the very end, we got the occasional gems like Logan or the Deapdool movies.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 12th 2021 at 9:27:22 PM

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MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135384: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:27:53 PM

There were some good things from Fox's X-Men films, but there were definitely a lot of bad films. For me, the highlights of that franchise come from the first two, First Class, Days of Future Past, and Logan.

[up] Oh yes, forgot about Mr. Wade Wilson. I'm genuinely glad he's making the jump to the MCU. That bit with Korg for Free Guy promotion was genius.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 12th 2021 at 12:30:04 PM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135385: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:35:08 PM

It is eternally hilarious how they choose to adapt the Dark Phoenix story AGAIN and still did it as bad or worse than the original.

A fucking laugh riot. [lol]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#135386: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:35:21 PM

As long as we can all agree that the worst X-Movie (by FAR) is Wolverine Origins, I'm happy tongue

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#135387: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:38:17 PM

I dunno Last Stand is a strong contender.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#135388: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:40:22 PM

Last Stand has cool things in it like Magneto’s fights, the Juggernaut’s fight, and Beast in general. I can’t think of a single cool thing in Origins or Dark Phoenix.

The legend has returned.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#135389: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:43:31 PM

It depresses me that two poor movie attempts have ruined any chance of one of the more iconic X-men stories ever getting an adaptation.

Even barring the fact that the Phoenix did admittedly become something of a Plot Tumor that came to define Jean a bit too much, the original tale is still great and deserves to be properly adapted, but after Fox fucked it up twice, Marvel and the MCU are probably just going to forget it ever existed.

Maybe that's for the best, and some might celebrate that they don't have to deal with it again, but still. It irks me.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#135390: Oct 12th 2021 at 12:59:22 PM

Avengers Disassembled is a story that has the stink of Wanda’s ties to Magneto dragging her down

When the other Avengers first suspect it’s Wanda, Clint Fucking Barton says something about how he’s not surprised because she’s Magneto’s daughter and was in his brotherhood of evil mutants and as far as Clint Iron Man Villain Barton is concerned nobody can redeem themselves

Also the whole thing where the story is “resolved” by having Magneto swoop in and fly off with Wanda

Her reputation and also Clint Dumbass Barton weren’t the only casualties of the story though

It can and has been argued that the story killed off the Avengers and what we have now is something almost but not entirely unlike tea

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135391: Oct 12th 2021 at 1:00:53 PM

And Wanda Vision wound redeem Dissembled in a way as it does feature Wanda having a destructive mental breakdown but not harmful to the character.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#135392: Oct 12th 2021 at 1:03:07 PM

I loved how Clint, the douche, first had sex with an amnesiac Wanda....and years later it turned out the idiot boned a Doombot tongue

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miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#135393: Oct 12th 2021 at 1:04:22 PM

Hey Wolverine origins gave us a freaking awesome game.

So it at least some positives unlike Dark Phoenix.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#135394: Oct 12th 2021 at 1:04:41 PM

hes lucky the doombot didn't self destruct while they were going down..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#135395: Oct 12th 2021 at 1:08:05 PM

I can believe Doom builds robots with fleshlights I just wish I didn’t have to

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#135396: Oct 12th 2021 at 1:21:15 PM

I still want Wanda and Pietro to be mutants and to be Magneto's blood children. They've been mutants longer than they've not, that relationship's existed longer than it hasn't and IMO all three of them do nothing but gain from both details.

The comics just completely screwing up Wanda because they have no clue what to do with her has nothing to do with either her mutant heritage or her being Erik's daughter - the mutant-centric House of M is basically a directly follow-up to the mutant-devoid Avengers Disassembled, and she's largely defined as a psychotic wreck in both. To me, retconning MCU Wanda as Magneto's mutant daughter both changes nothing of what's happened to her so far and only adds more to her to be explored on.

Edited by Watchtower on Oct 12th 2021 at 4:22:16 AM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#135397: Oct 12th 2021 at 1:35:14 PM

Avengers Disassembled is a story that has the stink of Wanda’s ties to Magneto dragging her down

When the other Avengers first suspect it’s Wanda, Clint Fucking Barton says something about how he’s not surprised because she’s Magneto’s daughter and was in his brotherhood of evil mutants and as far as Clint Iron Man Villain Barton is concerned nobody can redeem themselves

Also the whole thing where the story is “resolved” by having Magneto swoop in and fly off with Wanda

Her reputation and also Clint Dumbass Barton weren’t the only casualties of the story though

It can and has been argued that the story killed off the Avengers and what we have now is something almost but not entirely unlike tea.

An accurate summary of both Avengers Disassembled and House of M is that they are the stories where Wanda's character got completely shat on by Brian Michael Bendis, and she has not really recovered from them at all. Nobody wanted to touch her character after this shitshow and she basically disappeared from all comics for several years. To this day, most people who vaguely know comic Wanda only know her as the super powerful unstable woman "who goes crazy all the time" thanks to this one comic run, completely ignoring the preceding 50 years where she was a core Avenger and not crazy at all.

At the time these stories came out, comics sales were dwindling, so Bendis was hired to spice things up. He wrote Avengers Disassembled and House of M, in which Wanda is basically just a side character and turned into a crazed plot device while the main focus is on Wolverine and the other mutants. At first, she was mentally ill and manipulated by Quicksilver, later retconned to be completely possessed by the Life Force thanks to Doctor Doom and not in control at all.

This is why I always cringe when people want MCU Wanda to go "full house of M". Because like others said, WandaVision was the MCU adaptation of House of M, salvaging that story's usable parts and making it actually be about Wanda rather than use Wanda as a plot device.

It's also why I cringe at some of the supposed leaks regarding Wanda's part in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness: because WandaVision ended with Wanda deliberately choosing to erase her own children and Vision facsimile from existence rather than let the people of Westview continue suffering. She put the wellbeing of others ahead of her own personal happiness, and went into exile to study how to get a better grip on her powers so that something like Westview doesn't happen again, learning from the one source of knowledge she knows has an entire chapter dedicated to her. The leaks have Wanda supposedly going around the multiverse wreaking havoc and murdering everyone who crosses her, all to get back the same kids that she willingly erased for the greater good.

Of course, I'm personally inclined to write said "leaks" off as very bad fanfic for one obvious reason: such a regression in character feels weird when the cast and crew of WandaVision gave so many interviews after the show that talked about Wanda finally getting some agency and coming into her own, how they promised themselves to avoid the more problematic elements of the Unstable Powered Woman trope, Wanda's tremendous guilt over Westview, Wanda accepting her losses and trauma after being able to work through the 5 stages of grief, and Elizabeth Olsen saying that "people are too quick to judge but not quick to forgive; acceptance is a superpower and so is forgiveness". Not to mention that Multiverse of Madness writer Michael Waldron has said he worked closely with Olsen and Jac Schaeffer to honor Wanda's growth, and has described the movie as having a bit of an Indiana Jones inspiration.

None of this lines up with leaks alleging that Marvel is having her go full psycho and be the main villain of the entire movie, before completely losing it at the end and going full House of M on the multiverse, all the while making Strange sound like a side character in his own movie.

Edited by dmcreif on Oct 12th 2021 at 4:39:21 AM

Okey Dokey!
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#135398: Oct 12th 2021 at 2:00:08 PM

Just saw Shang Chi.

I feel like it was one giant apology for Iron Fist seasons 1 and 2.

You wanted an Asian superhero seeking their roots? Boom.

You wanted consistently excellent stuntwork? Boom.

You wanted a deep exploration of a magical Eastern martial arts society? Boom.

You wanted that dragon we kept teasing in Iron Fist? Boom two dragons and an extended fight scene with them.

I genuinely didn't hate a single performance in this movie. It's revitalized my interest in the MCU.

The scene with Wong and Abomination had me laughing and wondering where he even came from.

Edited by FOFD on Oct 12th 2021 at 5:07:19 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#135399: Oct 12th 2021 at 2:00:29 PM

Wolverine Origins introduced us to Ryan Reynolds as Wade Wilson, and the backlash to Weaspon XI did in a roundabout way help get us a Truer to the Text Deadpool (2016)... eventually.

They're both still so comically stupid and both have some of my favorite examples of characters who are way too proud and confident in their powers. Origins has the teleporting guy genuinely planning to punch the immortal, healing, Sabretooth to death. X3 has one-inch-spikes guy who genuinely thinks that he's threatening to Magneto.

... and neither of these movies treat them like they're idiots as soon as they consider that. It's astonishing.

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miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#135400: Oct 12th 2021 at 2:04:38 PM

[up]The game version of Origins also gave us Logan thanks to the creator loving the gore feel of that game.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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