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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#135276: Oct 10th 2021 at 1:21:45 PM

It's easy to forget that he didn't PREVENT the multiverse war, he WON the multiverse war. He wiped out every single universe except his own, as much as he claims his other Variants are more powerful than him, he still murdered all of them with Alioth.

DoubleOG (Apprentice)
#135277: Oct 10th 2021 at 1:23:41 PM

[up] He claims they are more evil than him, not more powerful.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#135278: Oct 10th 2021 at 1:37:30 PM

Of course, he doesn't claim he's good either, just that the others are worse.

It does make me wonder if he'd truly just fuck off and never bother anyone again if the threat of his variants was permanently quelled. It kinda seems like he'd like to just ....not be doing this shit anymore, but when you have ultimate power for so long, it's hard to believe you'd willingly give it up.

One Strip! One Strip!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#135279: Oct 10th 2021 at 1:49:47 PM

The way he basically leaves the choice up to the Lokis and doesn't truly mount a defense struck me as him being just tired of the whole thing, so I think he would actually give up all of this and just retire somewhere if the threat of other Kangs was permanently eliminated.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#135280: Oct 10th 2021 at 2:00:37 PM

The fact that the choice boiled down to:

  • Take over for me, and run the TVA how you want while I get to retire.

  • Kill me, restart the multiverse war, and eventually it'll all loop back around to me being in charge of the TVA again.

Really makes it clear how he's viewing the situation. Thanos SAYS he's inevitable, but He Who Remains genuinely BELIEVES he's inevitable, and everything else is just a minor inconvenience to him.

The fact that we all know that the multiverse war will end with the Avengers defeating Kang and preventing the TVA from establishing a Sacred Timeline again is just icing on the cake.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#135281: Oct 10th 2021 at 3:34:20 PM

It does make me wonder if he'd truly just fuck off and never bother anyone again if the threat of his variants was permanently quelled. It kinda seems like he'd like to just ....not be doing this shit anymore, but when you have ultimate power for so long, it's hard to believe you'd willingly give it up.

Maybe. It’s noticeable that instead of using the TVA to simply prune versions of himself or modify the past so that he never game to be at all, he specifically targets other people to ensure that he is the only version of himself in the timeline.

His entry worldview is based around the idea that He is the most dangerous thing in the cosmos, nothing else could possibly be as important, and that they can’t just get rid of him because He needs to be around stop other versions of Him from coming into existence.

Since this is my probably all going to end with the Avengers Taking a Third Option anyway, I wonder if their solution is just going to be undoing the series of events that lead to any version of Kang become my a threat.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135282: Oct 10th 2021 at 4:49:20 PM

[up] If they do take that third option, that might be what leads into Secret Invasion and / or Secret Wars, depending on what goes down.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#135283: Oct 10th 2021 at 8:30:48 PM

Well Secret Invasion is coming well before any new Avengers movie.

Heck, it's coming before the next Ant-Man movie, which so far is the only upcoming confirmed appearance of Kang.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#135284: Oct 10th 2021 at 10:35:45 PM

I wonder, is Kang the Conqueror an inevitability? Is it the case that, evert universe would produce a Kang if left unsupervised?

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#135285: Oct 10th 2021 at 10:39:49 PM

Well, now I am imagining TVA agents on standby to ensure Reed and Sue get together.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135286: Oct 10th 2021 at 10:40:34 PM

Huh so we Rick and Morty now. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#135287: Oct 10th 2021 at 10:46:43 PM

According to HWH, Kang is indeed a literal chronological inevitability in all universes except the Sacred Timeline.

Hell, one of us might be Kang.

Or maybe all of us.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#135289: Oct 10th 2021 at 11:01:51 PM

It sounded like Kang isn't an inevitability, but a Kang/HWR variant is, and as long as one of those variants decides to be a multiversal conqueror, the Multiverse War will happen. There were other variants who genuinely were more interested in exploration than domination, but they were crushed by the Kangs. That's why my proposed solution would be an Alliance of Non-Kangs who enforce a no-conquering pact and smack down any would-be multiversal conqueror, but HWR probably had reason to believe that the more peace-minded variants wouldn't band together or wouldn't be strong enough.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#135290: Oct 10th 2021 at 11:09:40 PM

It's difficult to tell whether Kang is really an inevitability, because the person saying so is Kang (or a version of him) himself. He's evidently ensured that he will be born in the current timeline, but no other versions of himself, which leaves the question of what would happen if they changed history so that even HWR is never born / becomes an artists instead of a scientist / says "fuck this" when he discovers the secret to temporal travel.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135291: Oct 10th 2021 at 11:17:20 PM

Man this will get even more trippy if they include Kang's descendent relation to Reed and Reed's time-traveling father.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#135292: Oct 10th 2021 at 11:21:10 PM

Watch Kang be a descendant of Tony Stark instead.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135293: Oct 10th 2021 at 11:30:59 PM

There's a gag there of Tony Stark taking all the character things characters have.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#135294: Oct 11th 2021 at 12:07:08 AM

I mean, you could prevent Kang's birth or whatever, but then theres no one curating the timelines, which means infinite branching, which means infinite Kangs.

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#135295: Oct 11th 2021 at 1:01:28 AM

I mean Tony had a child before he died, it's totally possible for Kang to be his far off descendant if they wanted to.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#135296: Oct 11th 2021 at 1:24:41 AM

I mean, depending on how far in the future he's born, he's descended from many people alive today. Nothing says he couldn't be descended from both Tony Stark and Reed Richards, or anyone else for that matter.

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#135297: Oct 11th 2021 at 1:52:47 AM

I actually thought (clarification, a theory I had before the last episode's reveals) Kang would be a descendant of Morgan Stark and that's why the Time Heist was "meant to happen" despite how it seemingly goes against the TVA's mission. If it doesn't happen, Morgan doesn't exist, which means Kang doesn't exist, so the TVA was set up in part to ensure his own existence.

Edited by Ayasugi on Oct 11th 2021 at 4:53:42 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135298: Oct 11th 2021 at 1:56:16 AM

Granted being Tony's descendent would be kinda meaningless since he's no longer around to be able to confront him.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#135299: Oct 11th 2021 at 1:56:46 AM

I mean, you're absolutely right that the Time Heist needed to happen because if it doesn't, He Who Remains doesn't exist, but I don't see what that has to do with Morgan. She'd exist with or without the Time Heist, she's a product of the Snap, not the Blip.

If anything, the most likely answer is that He Who Remains is the direct descendant of at least one person brought back by the Blip (pretty high odds there, since we're starting at 50% and it only gets more likely with each generation), thus the Blip needs to happen in order for He Who Remains to exist.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#135300: Oct 11th 2021 at 4:28:59 AM

I think even if it isn't inevitable that one specific person becomes a time traveling despot, it's almost inevitable that someone will decide to try to abuse time travel that way.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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