TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135201: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:05:06 PM

Oh right the Iron Spider suit was used in Infinity War and Endgame where Peter mostly uses it fight mook armies that everyone else already fights.

Thats why it doesn't feel like it provides that much of a boost because there's not many moments that go "Holy fuck he is strong".

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#135202: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:06:08 PM

He set it to autopilot, curled into a ball, and wept in the finest Zdarsky tradition

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#135203: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:12:00 PM

Everyone complains about Peter Quill being OOC in Infinity War/Endgame but nobody talks about Peter Parker voluntarily activating Instant Kill mode on the Iron Spider.

The whole reason Instant Kill was a thing was to make a joke about how very different Peter and Tony are, and how Peter would never use such a thing. It was not supposed to be a Chekhov's Gun.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 7th 2021 at 2:13:33 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#135204: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:17:20 PM

Kinda desperate when you’re up against thousands of robotic dudes fighting for the annihilation of themselves and the universe and while you’re carrying the device that would allow them to do exactly that. Very different from a pair of average human robbers sitting in a van.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 7th 2021 at 2:18:34 AM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#135206: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:19:23 PM

Eh, he activated it when he was getting swarmed by Outriders, who are basically depicted as rabid alien dogs. What Measure Is a Non-Human? / What Measure Is a Mook? is in full effect, and not even Batman's no-kill code is that sturdy.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#135207: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:21:58 PM

Unless this is Injustice: Gods Among Us lol.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135208: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:23:25 PM

And honestly, was Quill's freakout even that OOC? The guy's been established as being an emotionally unstable 14-year old boy in the body of a 30 year-old man, and his first instinct is to attack anything that has taken something away from him.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#135209: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:24:48 PM

Yeah, if ever there were a time for Peter to activate Instant-Kill Mode, it was then and there.

Quill suddenly regressing into a manchild emasculated by Thor's very presence, who uses his own mother's death in an effort to one-up Thor's suffering, and later bickers with Gamora that she went left instead of right when she's currently being held hostage by her own father is not something that tracks with his character growth over the previous two films. Hell, I'd say it's even less mature than he was at the beginning of GOTG 1.

The freak-out where he "ruins" Strange's plan due to learning Gamora is dead is fine in a vacuum, but following the prior trashing of his character it does feel like an almost-deliberate attempt by the IW writers to sabotage him further. Like "We don't like this character, so let's try to make the audience dislike him too, neener neener!".

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Oct 7th 2021 at 5:29:28 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#135210: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:25:04 PM

Nah tbh I think it was pretty normal for Quill. He's a huge brat.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135211: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:26:31 PM

He has very little qualities that can be considered admirable.

I mean Rocket’s also a massive jackass but he is a tech-wiz so by that virtue he is intelligent.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 7th 2021 at 2:27:00 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135212: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:27:26 PM

[up][up][up] Eh, I dunno. Quill always struck me as the guy who wants to be in charge and the coolest there is, especially in the second movie when he and Rocket are trying to one-up each other in trying to control the Milano. So him suddenly becoming immature because there's a presence amongst the Guardians that everyone immediately respects that isn't him or Yondu? I can buy that.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 7th 2021 at 2:27:46 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#135213: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:38:21 PM

I’ve actually seen a lot of people talk about the instant kill spider man thing

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#135214: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:47:04 PM

The Instant Kill thing struck me pretty bluntly as the Russos having a very different take on how superheroes should act than Jon Watts and Spidey's home series in general. In addition to that moment, there's also Spidey being the one to immediately think of the plan to kill Ebony Maw, which arguably makes the difference even more clear. Spidey in the Avengers movies is more of a mini-Tony than he is in his own series.

To put it a little broader: the Russos wrote the Avengers movies with the same morality they did Captain America: where a hero, no matter how empathic or innocent, will step up and be a soldier/kill action movie style if they have to, without looking back. A character who is both prominent and bluntly does not do that isn't going to fit into their framework, so Russo Spidey is never shown having much of a problem mercing people to get the job done.

Well the ending of Let there be carnage means that might come sooner then you think.

I'm reminded of that time Sony's Amy Pascal said "oh, yeah. Venom is totally canon to the MCU" and Kevin Feige just kind of sat there smiling politely in annoyance, followed by that not actually happening.

What Sony chooses to put in Venom doesn't speak to what the MCU is going to choose to do. Sony has always wanted to link its movies to the MCU, and the MCU has always not actually done so in the opposite direction.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 7th 2021 at 2:49:31 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#135215: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:48:35 PM

Quill was doing that at the start of Guardians 2, but by the end he had matured more and wasn’t getting into petty fights with his teammates anymore. Additionally, it’s been four years in Infinity War since Guardians 2, so one would assume he’d be further more responsible instead of sliding all the way back.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#135216: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:52:20 PM

To put it a little broader: the Russos wrote the Avengers movies with the same morality they did Captain America: where a hero, no matter how empathic or innocent, will step up and be a soldier/kill if they have to without looking back.

This is also evident by how Strange reacted very negatively to killing in his own film but had no qualms about it in Infinity War/Endgame.

Peter having to go all out against a Zerg Rush makes sense in desperation but his first thought being to kill Maw in a less immediate circumstance is more suspect.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#135217: Oct 7th 2021 at 2:56:34 PM

[up][up][up] Hence why I say that Marvel Studios isn't really interested in incorporating Venom. From what I can tell, Feige already wanted to distance Venom from the MCU due to Spider-Man 3, and Pascal wants to force him in to try to keep as much creative ownership over their universe as possible, while still having control over Spidey. And as of Let There Be Carnage, it seems that Pascal got her wish.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#135218: Oct 7th 2021 at 3:06:59 PM

Probably as part of the new deal they made to allow for the partnership.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#135219: Oct 7th 2021 at 3:08:35 PM

[up][up][up]I don't know that the Russos should get all the blame for a thing like Peter or Cap's code of ethics because they, you know, didn't actually write any of these movies.

Like, not a single one.

Also, Captain America has never really been written in the movies to have a no kill rule. Even after World War II, he has shown no problem in using guns.

Edited by ArthurEld on Oct 7th 2021 at 3:11:44 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#135220: Oct 7th 2021 at 3:10:44 PM

Are we uh discussing cap having a no kill rule.

He uh doesn't even have one. Most marvel heroes don't. With like the expectation of say spiderman.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#135221: Oct 7th 2021 at 3:14:35 PM

Steve at least seems to be a bit more restrained in that he hardly ever uses any weapon besides his shield, and most of what he inflicts is survivable by action movie standards. It depends on the situation. Against Crossbones’ group he doesn’t hesitate to kill but when defending Bucky from the SWAT group he held back more and caught some of the guys Bucky threw.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 7th 2021 at 3:14:50 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#135222: Oct 7th 2021 at 3:14:51 PM

Cap and a lot of marvel heroes have more of a "I'm going to do my best not to kill" rule. Lethal force tends to be their last resort whenever they can, but it's very obviously a tool in their arsenal. Steve Rogers Cap in the comics usually displays this by relying more on hand-to-hand combat. Bucky Cap for example made a big contrast of very clearly using artillery weapon to show he was far more willing to go for the kill from day one.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#135223: Oct 7th 2021 at 3:16:01 PM

Though Hulk has a bit of a no-kill rule going by the whole "Immediately analyze his destruction so no debris ever lands on anyone" logic.

Also Hawkeye has a no-kill rule....... well comic wise.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#135224: Oct 7th 2021 at 3:17:21 PM

[up][up][up]Becuase the SWAT guys were just normal guys doing their jobs

Crossbones and his crew in contrast are scumbag terrorists.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#135225: Oct 7th 2021 at 3:37:34 PM

I don't know that the Russos should get all the blame for a thing like Peter or Cap's code of ethics because they, you know, didn't actually write any of these movies.

Like, not a single one.

Also, Captain America has never really been written in the movies to have a no kill rule. Even after World War II, he has shown no problem in using guns.

We have never been talking about Cap's kill rule itself, only comparing it in relation to Spidey's.

Also, not writing the movies does not in any way mean the directors have no input in how the characters are portrayed. Far from it. Writers in Hollywood is very tied to directing - the two field are not separate.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 7th 2021 at 3:38:36 AM


Total posts: 186,763
Top