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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134851: Oct 3rd 2021 at 2:55:41 PM

Yeah, certainly Mordo's going to see Westview as a case of a sorceress abusing her powers.

At this point, the only two things about Multiverse of Madness I'm guessing are true are that Mordo will be the main villain (or at least the main human villain), and Wanda is going to be a co-lead akin to Tony Stark's role in Captain America: Civil War (which might explain an image of a stuntman's beanie hat sporting the Sanctum Sanctorum logo intertwined with Wanda's tiara).

Edited by dmcreif on Oct 3rd 2021 at 5:57:07 AM

Okey Dokey!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134852: Oct 3rd 2021 at 3:06:35 PM

Yeah, I'm hoping that's what Multiverse of Madness is mostly focused on, rather than blatant multiverse fanservice for no reason.

I am genuinely curious about Michael Waldron's involvement with that film though. It could mean...anything...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134853: Oct 3rd 2021 at 3:38:03 PM

rather than blatant multiverse fanservice for no reason.

Also true of No Way Home.

At least this might put to bed some of the crossover rumors.

Okey Dokey!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134854: Oct 3rd 2021 at 3:51:43 PM

[up] That very first tweet just reeks of "Source: Dude, trust me".

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134855: Oct 3rd 2021 at 3:54:00 PM

Can we stop posting rumors.

They are obviously all bullshit.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#134856: Oct 3rd 2021 at 3:55:02 PM

this is the internet all we talk about is rumors and speculation!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#134857: Oct 3rd 2021 at 3:57:26 PM

[up][up][up][up]Yeah, can you just stop posting things from Twitter, please?

If it's not from an official source like Marvel or Disney themselves, you really don't need to be sharing it here.

Edited by ArthurEld on Oct 3rd 2021 at 4:01:25 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134858: Oct 3rd 2021 at 4:40:07 PM

Okay here's a topic.

Captain America 4 is being made, who could be the villain? What Captain America villains are there?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#134859: Oct 3rd 2021 at 4:41:29 PM

Zola.

Let's let Toby finally play him as the full monstrous TV Digital villain he should be.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134860: Oct 3rd 2021 at 4:42:15 PM

Something interesting to notice is that Phase 4 really has leaned into mind control as a theme:

  • WandaVision: Westview
  • The Falcon and the Winter Soldier: The flashback scene with the Winter Soldier
  • Loki: Sylvie enchants people
  • Black Widow: pheromones, Red Room mind control
  • Shang-Chi: The Dweller in Darkness

One can only wonder what Eternals, No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness will do for that.

Zola. Let's let Toby [Jones] finally play him as the full monstrous TV Digital villain he should be.

There was an early draft of Ant-Man that included him in a cyborg form.

Edited by dmcreif on Oct 3rd 2021 at 7:43:04 AM

Okey Dokey!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134861: Oct 3rd 2021 at 5:08:09 PM

[up] Yes there was, and I wish we got that. But alas, we didn't.

I actually kinda want Zola to be a secondary and/or main villain in an Ant-Man & the Wasp film. Like I said before, it would be cool to find out if Hank and Arnim worked together during their S.H.I.E.L.D days, and them meeting each other and seeing how the other ended up years later would be an interesting dynamic.

One of my fantasies that I keep thinking about is for the Ant-Man heroes to be talking to the main bad guy on a digital projector/screen, only for the screen to be hijacked and Zola takes control, mocking Scott and the van Dyne family before sending HYDRA thugs to kill them. Kinda like a homage to Andrew Ryan's appearance in Burial at Sea.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 3rd 2021 at 5:08:47 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134862: Oct 3rd 2021 at 5:10:24 PM

[up] The successful acquisition of the Space Stone during the Endgame Time Heist happened in 1970, while Zola was still alive. So I think he and Hank probably worked together for about five to seven years.

Okey Dokey!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#134863: Oct 3rd 2021 at 5:11:50 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Captain_America_enemies

Armadillo: A superpowered criminal with an armadillo's physiology.

Totally needs to be a thing in MCU,a super villain Armadillo

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134864: Oct 3rd 2021 at 5:14:32 PM

[up][up] Yeah, that info isn't lost on me. And Howard Stark seemed to work closesly enough with Zola to be on a first-name basis with him. I just think him and Hank talking about their relationship while working with S.H.I.E.L.D in the 70s could be fantastic world and/or lore-building.

As for Captain America 4 ideas? Well, I definitely want Sharon Carter explored more of. Her being a crime boss who's been reinstated inside the CIA sounds like a brilliant idea for a Reverse Whodunnit plot, and also adds to the political conspiracy thriller themes of Winter Soldier. I also wouldn't mind an introduction to whatever Valentina has planned. I really want more of her character.

I know some people have been wondering about the Serpent Society. I know jack shit about those guys, but if anyone has knowledge about them from the comics that they're willing to share on here, I'd be curious to learn about them.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 3rd 2021 at 5:15:27 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134865: Oct 3rd 2021 at 5:27:28 PM

And Howard Stark seemed to work closesly enough with Zola to be on a first-name basis with him.

I've actually considered that to be another factor for why Steve didn't come clean with Tony about the fact that HYDRA killed Tony's parents: because to tell Tony "I think the Winter Soldier, AKA my squadmate Bucky Barnes, was used by HYDRA to kill your parents", he would also have to tell Tony "Your father was one of those who let Zola join SHIELD, and granted Zola access to the resources he needed to complete Bucky's transformation into the Winter Soldiernote  and regrow HYDRA within SHIELD" given that he saw those pictures of Howard, Peggy and Colonel Phillips framed for him to see before he and Natasha discovered Zola's computer form.

I also wouldn't mind an introduction to whatever Valentina has planned. I really want more of her character.

I see Valentina heading a Thunderbolts type group, with Walker, Abomination, Zemo, and Yelena among its roster.

Edited by dmcreif on Oct 3rd 2021 at 8:32:27 AM

Okey Dokey!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#134866: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:02:31 PM

Maybe the Serpent Society, since that's what the third Captain America movie was announced as before they revealed it was actually a Civil War adaptation.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134867: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:02:47 PM

[up][up] Dang. You're right. Finding out your dad indirectly caused his own death by hiring and working with a former HYDRA scientist who took over his organization from within would probably break your brain hard.

I suppose Valentina will be doing something Thunderbolts related, which would be cool. I'm almost certain Zemo and Valentina will begin working together if they haven't already, and she already has Belova and John Walker under her employment. Abomination's kind of in a weird spot right now, given that he's planned to be in She-Hulk, but him joining up with her would be interesting.

I also saw some ideas regarding Ghost from Ant-Man and the Wasp joining the Thunderbolts. It would certainly be interesting to see Valentina interact with Ava Starr, that's for sure.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:02:56 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134868: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:26:39 PM

I wonder how much of a near miss Hank had with Hydra

I guess he was reclusive crazy paranoid enough that they didn’t need to have him winter soldier’d but you’d think they would have wanted to get their hands on his technology

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#134869: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:36:56 PM

As far as villains for Cap IV go, Zola is an obvious one as well as the Gambit Roulette Queen Sharon Carter. As far as unintroduced villains go, I think it would be a interesting pitch to have Sam face some evil Legacy Character to parallel the own legacy he's upholding. Comics-wise, Sin/Red Skull IV might be a interesting pitch. Not a biological daughter like comics (which would be pretty far-fetched given Skull was sent to space to become a ethereal entity in 1945 in the MCU's timeline), but a female successor of some kind who takes up the mantle of Red Skull and galvanizes followers of her own.

You could make some interesting parallels in Sam and Sin dealing with the legacies they're trying to uphold. Sam is trying to grapple with wielding the shield and the colors of the US despite the history of oppression his people have been subjected to, while Sin would be trying to uphold a legacy that directly despises her (Nazis being famously distasteful of women in any role that's not a obedient housewife). Both are struggling uphill against systems that traditionally push them down, but for reverse purposes: Sam seeking liberation, Sin just becoming one of the oppressors (with the easy sociopolitical parallel for her being the alt-right white female influencers like Laura Southern). Could easily make some interesting points about white feminism, intersectionality and the like.

In less thematic points, I'd like to see a new spin on Dr. Faustus and Baron Wolfgang Von Strucker. Faustus kinda showed up in Agent Carter, but it seems like a waste to let the character die there and not reuse the premise of a mind controlling fascist intellectual in the day and age of fake news. Strucker showed up in AOU but basically In Name Only, so it wouldn't be a bad thought to see him again in a more proper form.

Edited by Gaon on Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:37:19 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#134870: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:38:14 PM

William Burnside would be interesting.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#134871: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:40:11 PM

I feel like Cap 4's villain should be Zola, perhaps in conjunction with the other Captain America villains that are still alive. ...Which is everyone but Crossbones, come to think of it.

The legend has returned.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#134872: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:41:20 PM

The Cap films have been way less kill happy with its villains which helps...

Edited by miraculous on Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:41:35 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134873: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:46:12 PM

Maybe the Serpent Society, since that's what the third Captain America movie was announced as before they revealed it was actually a Civil War adaptation.

I still think that they should've done two movies, Captain America: The Serpent Society and Avengers: Civil War. The former would be about Cap and his Kooky Quartet (Sam, Natasha, Wanda, and Vision) going after the Serpent Society. It could be used to do things like lay some more foundation for Wanda and Vision's relationship (to make Vision's death in Infinity War even more heartbreaking), or lay some additional foundation for Sam to inherit the mantle of Captain America. And make the Avengers' breakup in Civil War feel more impactful.

Dang. You're right. Finding out your dad indirectly caused his own death by hiring and working with a former HYDRA scientist who took over his organization from within would probably break your brain hard.

Even if Howard was a good man, he had his skeletons. Letting Zola join wasn't the only one. Also up there is the fact that his work recreating the super soldier serum was thanks to the fruits of Isaiah Bradley's pain and suffering.

Edited by dmcreif on Oct 3rd 2021 at 9:47:34 AM

Okey Dokey!
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#134874: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:46:17 PM

[up]x9 The Serpent Society are a group of snake-themed supervillains, generally led by Madame Viper or King Cobra. Whereas other Captain America villains like the Red Skull and Flag-Smasher represent stuff like Nazism and anarchism, these guys represented trade unions — members have access to better weapons and technology, higher-paying heists, a "Get Out of Jail Free" Card with Sidewinder's teleportation powers, etc. They should not be confused with the Serpent Squad (a Quirky Mini Boss Squad generally serving as mooks for Sin) or the Sons of the Serpent (who are just Nazis. Not even fun ones like HYDRA, just snake-themed Nazis [down] a stupider version of the KKK).

For Cap 4, Burnside would be cool, but coming directly after Walker feels unoriginal. I'd save him for something later — hell, maybe a Thunderbolts movie/series where Walker gets to confront what he could turn out like. I personally would prefer either Zola or the Serpent Society.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:50:09 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134875: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:47:19 PM

I don't feel great about the idea that one of Cap's thematic enemy groups represent trade unions.

For the record, the Sons of the Serpent started off a thinly veiled KKK expies. They may have gone generic Naziesque later but KKK is where they started. That and blaming racism on foreign people.

Edited by Bocaj on Oct 3rd 2021 at 9:48:28 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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