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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#134801: Oct 2nd 2021 at 5:48:56 PM

I mean it would be redundant for another Venom origin or version of Eddie if Tom clearly makes money.

Just Makima.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134802: Oct 2nd 2021 at 5:51:51 PM

No more than DC making multiple movies with different versions of Batman.

Hell the Flash film is apparently gonna have 2 Batmen, Michael Keaton Batman and Ben Affleck Batman.

Combined with Pattinson’s Batman airing in the same year, that’s 3 Batman in a single year!

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 2nd 2021 at 5:52:49 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#134803: Oct 2nd 2021 at 10:23:15 PM

Superhero comics do frequently have stories that exist only to address continuity issues and explain how character X and character Y can both co-exist despite retcon Z. Guess some fans are eager to see that translated to live action.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134804: Oct 2nd 2021 at 11:49:46 PM

Apropos of nothing, since there's apparently a rule in the Sony/Marvel agreement that each Spider-Man movie needs a prominent MCU guest star (Iron Man in Homecoming, Nick Fury in Far From Home, and Dr Strange in No Way Home), I'd love to see a movie where Ant-Man is the guest star.

I'd love to see the two bounce off each other.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134805: Oct 2nd 2021 at 11:52:19 PM

Amusingly if we do get Kingpin then he'd be a perfect guest-star since he actually is a rogue Spidey faces a lot.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#134806: Oct 3rd 2021 at 1:05:56 AM

Originally a Spidey villain, in fact.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#134807: Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:08:04 AM

Yeah, but I fail to see how this Kingpin in particular would be a believable threat to MCU Spidey, as he is on a much more grounded level than his Comic Counterpart was when he started out as a Spidey foe (he gradually also became a bit more grounded, by necessity).

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 3rd 2021 at 3:08:27 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#134808: Oct 3rd 2021 at 8:48:32 AM

Comics Kingpin was outright stronger than Spidey was at first.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#134809: Oct 3rd 2021 at 8:59:41 AM

Though it should be noted that Spidey, in his youth, also wasn't just as strong as he became later on.

But yeah, Classic Fisk was kind of a beast. No wonder he had to become more toned down as a Daredevil foe.

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#134810: Oct 3rd 2021 at 9:05:49 AM

Could have sworn The Kingpin was a Daredevil villain at first before the cartoon made him Spider-man's main villain

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134811: Oct 3rd 2021 at 9:10:31 AM

I'd bet my life savings that the source of this "rumor" is someone who only ever read "House of M".

Seriously, a lot of these "rumors" read like people who have no understanding of Wanda in either the MCU or the comics whatsoever, so they stroke each other real hard with these "leaks" and "theories" without realizing how absolutely ridiculous they are. And of course the amount of misogynistic tropes they like to shove on Wanda...sad

Okey Dokey!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#134812: Oct 3rd 2021 at 9:11:05 AM

[up][up]Nope. I remember reading a lot of Silver Age comics, and Kingpin is Spidey's villain through and through. And I'm not kidding about Kingpin being outright stronger, and it's not a case of "Spider-Man holds back his true strength to not hurt his enemies". At one point, Kingpin shows off his custom vault, which is just a giant super-heavy metal door that requires Super-Strength to open. Kingpin is able to open it all the way no problem, but Spidey needs to stand on the wall and pull using his entire body in order to get it open just enough for his slender frame to fit through the crack.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 3rd 2021 at 9:11:35 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#134813: Oct 3rd 2021 at 9:16:43 AM

Kingpin started off as a spiderman villain. He really clicked as Daredevil's arch enemy so became that. That said he's still frequently fights Peter and he's a rare villain to be main members of two different heroes rogues galleries.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#134814: Oct 3rd 2021 at 9:19:45 AM

Yeah, he still appears in Spider-Man stories here and there, but now usually as a mastermind, not a physical threat.

After the Silver Age, he was gradually depowered, until he was "just" a very strong and skilled fighter, who could still beat the crap out of people like the Punisher, Daredevil, Red Skull or Captain America, but had no business fighting actual superpowered beings anymore. Which is kinda logical given that he, y'know, has no powers.

That beatdown Pete gave him in Back in Black is still epic as hell.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 3rd 2021 at 6:20:12 PM

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Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#134815: Oct 3rd 2021 at 9:32:35 AM

[up]x4 The other rumour that's been circulating lately kinda contradicts it, though. It states that A. there is a 2 year time skip between WV and Mo M B. all this time Wanda was living alone reading the book until she mastered a spell that allows her to transfer her consciousness to one of her own variants across the multiverse and fully control them from afar while physically staying in the "main" universe; she uses it to search for her kids. Why would she need America's skills then?

I fail to see how both of these rumors/theories are mysogynistic though. They all just assume she is the Big Bad or The Heavy.

Ps Actually, if one ignores the fact that some "leaks" occasionally turn out to be true, and assumes these are all just fandom guessing games, the logic seems to be is follows:

  • there is no known villain, no actor cast for an unknown role who could play the villain and no other character but Wanda with powers and motivation to be the villain => ergo, Wanda is the villain;
  • the movie is about the multiverse => ergo, Wanda must somehow get the ability to travel through it.

Everything else stems from these two conjectures.

Edited by Asherinka on Oct 3rd 2021 at 7:55:59 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#134816: Oct 3rd 2021 at 9:59:18 AM

[up][up] Honestly I love how that shows how versatile a villain Kingpin is. He's definitely got all his bases covered.

Being the de-facto mob boss you can have him in gritty crime thrillers while still having him unleash an army of magical ninjas on the spider-goons of the Superior Spider Man. You can have him as The Chessmaster, as a more background threat thanks to his social influence, or just have him beat the crap out of someone.

You are not alone.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134817: Oct 3rd 2021 at 10:01:54 AM

Regardless of whether he can fight Spidey one on one he is a still a mob boss and Spidey deals with a lot of those.

And of course his ultimate power comes not in his physical might but in actually getting him arrested when he has the courts and cops all in his pockets which is an issue for Spidey since he’s kind of a brute force guy.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134818: Oct 3rd 2021 at 10:03:53 AM

And he’s the mayor now

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#134819: Oct 3rd 2021 at 10:35:30 AM

After the Silver Age, he was gradually depowered, until he was "just" a very strong and skilled fighter, who could still beat the crap out of people like the Punisher, Daredevil, Red Skull or Captain America, but had no business fighting actual superpowered beings anymore.

Actual superpowered beings like Captain America?

Sorry, Kingpin just bugs me. Dude has no right to be on that power level.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#134820: Oct 3rd 2021 at 10:43:42 AM

I was dreading that this debate would start again tongue

Cap, in the normal 616 verse at least, is not "superpowered" in the same way people like Spider-Man or Luke Cage are.

He is, what I like to call, "Comic Book Peak Human". Which means, totally superhuman by our real life standarts, but not by comic book standarts. All the usual Badass Normal superheroes like Batman etc also fall under that category.

Sure, now and then Cap broke these limits and did things that are outright superhuman, but he is a character that has been around since the 40s and has had dozens of writers. It's in the nature of things that there will be some inconsistencies. Overall however, he is still supposed to be in that category.

The Ultimate Universe and also the MCU of course are different stories. There, he was portrayed as unambiguously superhuman from the very start, and consistently as well.

As for the Kingpin, I like him where he is now. It's much more believable than tearing down buildings with his bare hands, at least (yup, that happened).

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 3rd 2021 at 7:45:13 PM

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Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#134821: Oct 3rd 2021 at 10:48:00 AM

Even at the usual, Cap basically breaks every Olympian record simultaneously and his casual math skills would make a Harvard kid green with envy.

Wake me up at your own risk.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#134822: Oct 3rd 2021 at 10:48:42 AM

To clarify what the serum does is it removes the ill effects that come from pushing your body to the limit (like running a decathlon) [up][up] as mentioned above.

Which leaves him at the edge of pushing the human pyschque but without any super-strength or anything like that.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 3rd 2021 at 10:49:03 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#134823: Oct 3rd 2021 at 10:59:02 AM

[up][up] Hence, why I said superhuman for our standarts. Batman would be too. What "normal" comic book humans do during their daily business pretty much breaks the laws of physics on a regular basis.

[up] [awesome]

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134824: Oct 3rd 2021 at 11:02:25 AM

Guy does work out a lot.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#134825: Oct 3rd 2021 at 11:04:07 AM

On the subject of Multiverse of Madness, I find that people tend to ignore the giant Mordo in the room.

The first Doctor Strange movie basically ends with it standing on top of a mountain and shouting that Mordo will be the villain in the sequel to the entire world, and yet it's rarely actually discussed.

Given this, it's probably wise to especially doubt any MoM rumor that doesn't leave a place for Mordo.


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