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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#134701: Sep 30th 2021 at 10:53:26 PM

Flights to and from the moon are expensive.

But yeah, I'd rather not see Steve, Tony, or Natasha again in the MCU outside of What If? or flashbacks.

Treating the entire Black Widow movie as a flashback by the way, haha.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Sep 30th 2021 at 1:56:00 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#134702: Sep 30th 2021 at 10:56:37 PM

Bringing them back in major ways as Variants would also defeat their purposes for leaving the franchise in the first place.

If we're ever going to see them again in the MCU itself, my money's on it only happening during some kind of huge event where "holy crap Steve / Tony / etc are back!" is a big point of hype, in a plot where such a thing is both actually possible and actually worth the hype like - I dunno - Contest of Champions or something (or coughcough JLA / Avengers coughcough).

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 30th 2021 at 11:06:26 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134703: Sep 30th 2021 at 10:56:53 PM

Animation's a lot easier to deal with those things especially.

[up] I'd also say if they do a film where the Ultimates are the main villains so Evans comes back to play a jingoistic racist version of Cap like in the comics.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 30th 2021 at 10:58:07 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#134704: Sep 30th 2021 at 10:56:58 PM

[up][up][up]Clearly the Inhumans helped him.

JLA/Avengers seems more and more feasible as an animation project the more both live action franchises go on [lol]

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 30th 2021 at 12:58:41 PM

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#134705: Sep 30th 2021 at 10:58:53 PM

Although, Variants tend to be different in terms of history so it would be easier to have a Black Widow who comes from a universe similar to the MCU but distinct in some ways or an Iron Man from the Sakaar universe. In live-action, they're more likely show up in a multiversal crossover movie as opposed to the real deal versions anyway.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Sep 30th 2021 at 11:01:12 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134706: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:02:06 PM

And hey we're getting America Chavez so we can easily recreate that scene of Ultimate Cap going all about his A and France and Chavez goes "Yeah? Well, this America doesn't stand for your shit!" before knocking his lights out.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#134707: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:09:58 PM

[up][up] I don't know if I'd agree it's easier, mostly because it's much harder to sell to - say - Chris Evans' agent. It's lot easier to pitch "we're going to have you come back as the popular character you retired for one last big hurrah!" to an actor a few years down the line than "we want you to come back, but as an alternate, not as iconic, version of that character with their own story we may or may not have to delve into, etc, etc."

If an actor is going to return to a role, they're going to want to be the biggest return to that character they can get. Plus, the latter kind of comes off as a trap to try and get them back into the series.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 30th 2021 at 11:11:17 AM

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#134708: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:13:52 PM

Chrononaut, no one here is doubting the *feasibility* of using the concept of Variants to restore a character, we are just saying that it doesn’t have a good emotional impact to keep doing that, and it is odd to imply an actor SHOULD return because the franchise has a way for them to when they already wanted out.

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 30th 2021 at 1:15:12 PM

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#134709: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:39:55 PM

I see. But if they were to bring the What If...? or film-original alternate versions to live-action, they're going to have to delve deep into their stories and come up with something different yet compelling enough for the actors to care and not come off as a rehash of everything pre-Endgame.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Sep 30th 2021 at 11:40:19 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#134710: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:43:18 PM

That was always a really big "if" anyway, though. It's not too likely that we'll see the What If versions of the characters in anything but What If.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134711: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:43:48 PM

What If is more of a for fun thing anyway

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#134712: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:46:24 PM

Captain Carter was mentioned as a possible candidate for a live-action appearance according to the showrunner. It might happen with the other alternate versions of say Iron Man or Black Widow depending on if the original actors are interested.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#134713: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:47:56 PM

The showrunner of What If doesn't write or make MCU movies though, he makes What If. Unless he plans on trying to get Captain Carter into Ms. Marvel (which he's "consulting" on), what he thinks is possible or not doesn't really have any bearing on what Feige or the MCU are up to.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 30th 2021 at 11:51:15 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134714: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:51:21 PM

Even then I doubt Haley Atwell is ever gonna return to play Captain Carter.

That feels very unlikely and kinda unnecessary since Sam is the Cap now.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 30th 2021 at 11:51:45 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#134715: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:51:50 PM

We'll have to find out whether or not the (alive) Variants seen in What If...? actually appear in the movies.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#134716: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:53:03 PM

Like, that's just how Marvel is right now. They introduce a lot of stuff that can be introduced or followed up on in the future, but they don't have to follow up on any of it. If people go nuts for Captain Carter, she could show up in Secret Wars on Battleworld, or whatever, or Marvel could just decide to not use her ever again. What If is brilliant because it's basically a testing ground for ideas that dont have to matter. If one really works, though, they can toss it into their toy box at their leisure.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#134717: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:57:32 PM

There's also the nagging point that if they're kind of already doing a "temporarlly/dimensionally displaced female Captain America:" America Chavez.

Same with how Strange Supreme's "evil but omnipowerful Bad Future version of a magical hero" schtick is made kind of obsolete by the fact how we're apparently still getting Adam Warlock, and what with Thanos being dead now practically the only thing they could get out of Adam Warlock is set up for Magus.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#134718: Oct 1st 2021 at 12:04:31 AM

Does America Chavez have anything to do with Captain America other than her name? Her alias was Miss America and punching portals is pretty outside the "peak human + shield" powerset.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#134719: Oct 1st 2021 at 12:07:14 AM

They are similar enough that we can probably guarantee the general audience isn't going to care that there are differences deeper down. Even given that Chavez has a distinct kit and powerset, she's still blatantly designed as an "alternate universe Captain America" concept. She's even gone by Captain America on occasion.

So what the general audience is going to see is a hispanic character being shunted aside so that a white character who already has her own story can take over the niche instead.

Think the reaction people had involving Sam, but actually credible and not ridiculous because now it's actually bleeding over into the films.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 1st 2021 at 12:14:12 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134720: Oct 1st 2021 at 12:10:54 AM

Its the iconography and design, they can't be too similar.

I've actually seen some complaints about Captain Marvel's design being redundant because her costume being a jumpsuit with patriotic primary colors is already filled in by Cap.

Unless their directly related in some way, people prefer the characters to be distinct from one another.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 1st 2021 at 12:11:24 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134721: Oct 1st 2021 at 5:41:21 AM

assuming Doctor Strange 2's "multiverse" means just crazy extradimensional realms like the Dark Dimension rather than alternate timelines

I will be more excited for Multiverse of Madness once all those dumb rumors (which read more like bad fanfic) are proven false.[lol]

Okey Dokey!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134722: Oct 1st 2021 at 6:31:32 AM

I thought America was more a blatant reimagining of golden age character Miss America, who was not Wanda and Pietro’s mother

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#134723: Oct 1st 2021 at 6:55:02 AM

Yeah, I think Endgame's biggest failing was that it left time-travel too accessible. Like, it's really easily done and has no real drawbacks. You could go back in time and grab Mjolnir and then go back five seconds earlier and grab Mjolnir and keep doing that until Thor has a literal wall of Mjolnirs.

Or, Infinity Stones. Granted, reverse snapping almost killed Smart Hulk but the individual stones still were both useful and powerful; humans have been able to weaponize the Tesseract since WWII.

I was so certain that a major part of Endgame would be about the importance of destroying the stones (and especially the Time Stone) for that Doylist reason. And yet it went the other way making time travel seemingly trivial.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#134724: Oct 1st 2021 at 7:18:59 AM

Re- Scar Jo- Allot of things were stacking up against Disney here, the Shang-Chi release was a success showing you CAN do a Theater Only Release with Streaming following a short time later, and by doing the dual release they DID hurt her bottom line. The Contract was pretty black and white about no dual releases and I'm also willing to bet that Disney lost the case to take it to private mediation. Ergo lots of things would be made public they most likely don't want public. Or they did go to Mediation and the Mediator said "Yeeeeah, its pretty cut and dry find a number she likes..."

So they found a number she liked and that is that.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#134725: Oct 1st 2021 at 7:28:31 AM

That's why I think Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania will directly address the issues involving time travel. Maybe Hank will be terrified of the potential misuses casual time travel will bring, and Kang might get involved out of believing that it will prove a threat to him and the new TVA he built (assuming the Kang in Loki will be the same one in Quantumania).

And poor Scott's caught in the middle because time travel was technically his idea.


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