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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#134676: Sep 30th 2021 at 9:13:34 AM

The first time Vision got wrecked its because he was suicide bombed by a hate group that was against human-robot love.

Yeah. They literally called themselves the Human Bombs too.

She cannot write that kind of shit anymore....for multiple reasons.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#134677: Sep 30th 2021 at 9:25:23 AM

As previously noted, power levels are bullshit. Stan Lee once famously said that the winner of a fight is whoever the writer wants to win the fight. That's just how storytelling works.

The What If? scene being discussed is a prominent example of that. The writers of What If? wanted to tell a story about Ultron collecting the Infinity Gems, becoming aware of the Multiverse, and launching an invasion of all realities. They didn't have time to spend ten minutes on an epic drag-out brawl between Ultron and Thanos. So they just. Didn't.

The point of Ultron and Thanos's "fight" is that the writers want to give Ultron all of the Infinity Gems as fast as possible so they can get to what the story's actually about and don't want to get caught up in details like, "How did he get the Time Gem?" or "Who did he sacrifice for the Soul Gem?" So Thanos just walks right up to him with five Infinity Gems, Ultron kills him in two seconds, and then Ultron has the Gems. Quick, easy, covers what needs to be covered to allow the story to happen.

Ultron is able to easily kill Thanos because Thanos is here as a backstory footnote, not a serious element of the plot. He's literally a plot coupon delivery mechanism, existing only to enable the story. Whereas in Infinity War, Thanos was the main character in a story about how the best efforts of every MCU hero was ultimately not enough to stop him. Different story functions lead to very different encounters with the identically-powered Vision and Vision-inhabiting Ultron.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#134678: Sep 30th 2021 at 9:32:43 AM

Also why questions like "who would win in a fight between Magneto and Iron Man" always have to clarify which author is handling them, what era of comics this is in, whether or not the characters are juiced up on phlebotinum, before or after their girlfriend got fridged and they unlocked some true potential, etc etc.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134679: Sep 30th 2021 at 9:54:01 AM

I would have had it cut away and come back after the fight is over and have Ultron go boy that sure was the most fight of my life

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134680: Sep 30th 2021 at 11:28:25 AM

I prefer to think of things in a Watsonian perspective as opposed to a Doylist one. Hence, I was pretty bothered by the really strange continuity of that last episode.

At the same time though, the Doylist explanation here makes a lot more sense.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#134681: Sep 30th 2021 at 1:48:27 PM

But how many tons of TNT can Ultron shoot from the Mind Stone? The world deserves to know!

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#134682: Sep 30th 2021 at 2:52:09 PM

While it is amusing watching Thanos get casually bisected by a laser, it is one problem I've had with What If? so far. It feels like they aren't putting much attention into accurately representing the MCU films' continuity or characters, and are just making decisions based on whatever facilitates the plot or sounds funny, even if it causes plotholes or stretches characters beyond believability. It just feels... amateurish in every aspect except the stellar animation quality.

I'm still enjoying it due to the aforementioned animation quality and intriguing concepts, but as I said in the show's thread, it feels like I'm watching MCU fanfiction rather than something produced by the same minds behind even the weakest of the actual movies.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Sep 30th 2021 at 5:55:34 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134683: Sep 30th 2021 at 2:55:11 PM

The stellar animation makes me wonder whats the next major animated product.

Its really damn good especially this weeks episode, its a visual spectacle.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134684: Sep 30th 2021 at 3:34:32 PM

[up][up] In fairness, the creators did say at one point that they were basically writing professional MCU fanfiction. So I'm willing to bet they weren't exactly taking continuity too seriously.

As someone who genuinely likes continuity, that does annoy me a bit, especially where plot holes and character exaggerations are concerned. But since I'm not taking the show all that seriously anyways, I'm willing to give it more leeway than usual.

I do wish that this wasn't so interconnected with the Multiverse saga though. Like, if this was just a fun, silly non-canon work that was optional to watch, I think it'd be pretty good, and my standards would be lowered. But since it's a Stealth Sequel to Loki and there's implications that we might see more stuff from these alternate universes down the line, I feel that all the deviations from the Sacred Timeline have to make sense somehow, and if they don't, that annoys me. But that's just me.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Sep 30th 2021 at 3:35:26 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#134685: Sep 30th 2021 at 3:55:26 PM

The What If? concept is fanfiction to the max so I don’t think it can be helped.

The legend has returned.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#134686: Sep 30th 2021 at 3:56:56 PM

Calling it fanfiction does it a great disservice I think (even if its technically true)

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#134687: Sep 30th 2021 at 5:11:43 PM

Some news regarding the Scarlett Johansson-Disney lawsuit. She's now settled it in court and will continue her collaborations with the company as reported by Deadline.

Of course, Johansson said that she won't be returning to the role of Black Widow in the near future. However, she does want to work with Marvel on bringing comic storylines to the big or small screen. Even if she did return as the Widow, it won't be the mainline version but perhaps an alternate version of the character from another universe.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Sep 30th 2021 at 5:13:13 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134688: Sep 30th 2021 at 6:19:11 PM

She got dat MUNEH.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134690: Sep 30th 2021 at 7:22:14 PM

Heh.

I feel like this would be a common occurrence even before Tony became a superhero.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 30th 2021 at 7:22:28 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134691: Sep 30th 2021 at 7:22:43 PM

Must've been a relic from a Howling Commandos fight.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Sep 30th 2021 at 7:32:45 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#134692: Sep 30th 2021 at 8:23:42 PM

On the matter of Black Widow, Iron Man and Captain America. Given the existence of the Multiverse, Marvel may or may not bring them back in live-action with their original actors, that is assuming if they're interested in portraying their own Variants.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#134693: Sep 30th 2021 at 8:53:59 PM

I hope the multiverse/parallel timeline stuff mostly stays limited to the Loki series and What If? (assuming Doctor Strange 2's "multiverse" means just crazy extradimensional realms like the Dark Dimension rather than alternate timelines)

Once you have access to infinite timelines and infinite versions of everything crossing over every which way, it begins to become very difficult to actually care about any victories, losses, deaths, ect., as Rick from Rick and Morty learned.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Sep 30th 2021 at 11:54:23 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134694: Sep 30th 2021 at 9:02:11 PM

I'm curious how they would handle the Squadron Supreme since they typically come from an alternate universe.

The Martian Manhunter expy is a Skrull even.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#134695: Sep 30th 2021 at 9:30:03 PM

[up][up]I agree with this; part of the appeal of the MCU is the added realism of no Comic-Book Time and the actors' time with the franchise necessarily being finite, unlike the comics' Status Quo Is God and First Law of Resurrection. So when Endgame swapped out Gamora and Loki with past versions I was just like "okay, but don't abuse this plot device".

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#134696: Sep 30th 2021 at 9:33:26 PM

The MCU can have a little Gamora, as a treat.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#134697: Sep 30th 2021 at 10:08:38 PM

Yeah, I don't mind time travel, but when it's something that A: is readily available and B: isn't too dangerous to use, that's when you have a problem. It's kinda like the "why didn't they call the other Avengers?" problem, but now it's "why didn't they use time travel?". Advanced though it is, requiring the combined intelligence of Hank Pym, Tony Stark, and Bruce Banner to make happen, it's not impossible to replicate. Now that it's known to be possible, the genie is out of the bottle so to speak.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#134698: Sep 30th 2021 at 10:44:07 PM

Yeah, even after the death of Iron Man they still had a time travel platform just casually built over in the woods to send Cap back.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#134699: Sep 30th 2021 at 10:46:35 PM

For Black Widow, Johansson is going to work with Marvel and Disney on a number of projects. And Evans made a cameo in Free Guy. They might bring them back, but as Variants instead of their main MCU timeline selves for obvious reasons.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#134700: Sep 30th 2021 at 10:51:24 PM

That’s the thing though, as much as I disliked their endings, I would rather they not. Giving them anything more than minor side stories feels cheap and fanservicey in concept. What is the point of, say, TFATWS if alt Steve can just pop by whenever?

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 30th 2021 at 12:52:16 PM


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