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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134651: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:47:00 PM

[up] I'm honestly not too bothered with Vision's inconsistent power levels in the mainline MCU productions. Considering the guy used to be one of the weakest Avengers in the comics, seeing what we got with Sacred Timeline Vision and his variants before his death is kind of nice to have.

Though I do like being able to see the extent of his true power level in ''What If', and do wish we got a little more. But I'm fine with Westview and Cataract Vision.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134652: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:48:41 PM

It’s too large a cast anyway.

Lotta characters to juggle.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#134653: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:53:39 PM

Funny enough, if Vision wasn't super injured from all the attempts on his life, I'm pretty damn sure he'd bisect him with a blast just like Ultron did to Thanos on that episode of What If.

The legend has returned.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134654: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:56:05 PM

Weakest Avengers in comics?!

Vision once took down a guy that beat the rest of the team by just standing there and letting the guy punch himself to death on Vision’s diamond hard abs!

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#134655: Sep 29th 2021 at 6:57:58 PM

In the climax of Tom King’s run, Vision plowed through all the Avengers singlehandedly when enraged by the death of his son.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134656: Sep 29th 2021 at 7:09:49 PM

Yeah, but doesn't he get destroyed all the time and have to be rebuilt? And one time he was just left in Avengers headquarters deactivated for years because people forgot about him?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#134657: Sep 29th 2021 at 7:10:55 PM

LBR, variable power levels are an industry-wide problem :-)

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134658: Sep 29th 2021 at 7:11:11 PM

[up][up] Ah comics.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 29th 2021 at 7:11:33 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134659: Sep 29th 2021 at 7:14:01 PM

Okay, full-blown confession time: I actually haven't read too many actual Marvel Comics. I mostly have grown up on the X-Men and MCU films, and my actual comic reading was usually Tintin and Asterix.

I did read a Fantastic Four Spider-Man crossover comic, a Hulk story, and a few other Spider-Man stories. But that's all I really remember, and it was a super long time ago.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134660: Sep 29th 2021 at 7:21:51 PM

Power Levels are Bullshit to quote DBZA.

They fluctuate. Hell its an ongoing question whether Thor's lightning comes from him or his hammer.

Its weird, during the last Thor run when losing his hammer Thor became completely powerless save his bare Asgardian strength but in the current run when Tony takes it from him Thor summons lightning strikes to the ground and goes all "Do not mistake that having my hammer means I am without power, I am Thor."

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 29th 2021 at 7:23:15 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#134661: Sep 29th 2021 at 7:36:30 PM

Well that's what happens when you have 8530 different writers in your publication history.

You are not alone.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#134662: Sep 29th 2021 at 7:36:59 PM

@dmcreif: While I definitely get most of your post generally, it really doesn't fit with the last What If episode because it's not actually Vision but Ultron after successfully taking over Vision's body. So it's not really an example of Vision unbarring himself to save Wanda, since....y'know, it's Ultron.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134663: Sep 29th 2021 at 8:18:43 PM

Y'know, it's almost like Wanda was the true hero of Age of Ultron, since it was her act of defiance (stopping Ultron's download into Vision's body) that saved a universe.

Okey Dokey!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134664: Sep 29th 2021 at 8:29:01 PM

[up] Though at the same time, she did plant the idea in Tony's head...even if she probably didn't know what she was doing.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#134665: Sep 29th 2021 at 8:30:48 PM

And then actively aided Ultron in his malevolent schemes afterward.

So yeah, I guess you could argue Wanda was the true hero... after she got done being the true villain. tongue

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134666: Sep 29th 2021 at 8:32:17 PM

It is an ensemble film so it arguably doesn’t have a true hero.

It’s a group of heroes all working together.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134667: Sep 29th 2021 at 8:34:23 PM

[up] True, true.

I think what also makes the ensemble films so cool is that there isn't a main character in them, yet we see how the events of them affect certain characters personally in their own films and movies. Makes it one hell of a Rewatch Bonus to try to watch an ensemble film from a certain character's perspective.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134668: Sep 29th 2021 at 8:44:12 PM

[up] Makes Infinity War more heartbreaking from Wanda's POV, knowing it's just a few weeks before her trip to Westview.

You also realize Vision was about to tell Wanda about the property he'd bought in Westview when Corvus Glaive skewered him. Although I'll be honest, I actually think that his nervousness in that scene wasn't because he was going to tell Wanda about the house, but because he was about to get down on his knees and ask, "Wanda, will you marry me?"sadsad

Okey Dokey!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134669: Sep 29th 2021 at 8:49:06 PM

Vision getting destroyed a lot is kind of like Jean Grey dying a lot

They kinda do but its weighed against decades and decades of publishing

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#134670: Sep 29th 2021 at 9:45:10 PM

It's also an easy out for writers that either want to raise the stakes or simply dont want to write Vision into their stories. Having Vision get wrecked is basically consequence free given you or the next guy can just have him rebuilt.

Edited by Zeromaeus on Sep 29th 2021 at 12:45:38 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134671: Sep 29th 2021 at 10:04:08 PM

Its not the first time Vision got wrecked but Stern had Vision fall into a robot coma and spend a bunch of issues as a tube boy in service of an arc where Vision eventually tried to take over the world for its own good.

Some writers are not lazy.

The first time Vision got wrecked its because he was suicide bombed by a hate group that was against human-robot love.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#134672: Sep 29th 2021 at 10:06:10 PM

Wow, and I thought MCU Vision dying four times was bad. [lol] How many times has Vision died in the comics?

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134673: Sep 29th 2021 at 10:06:51 PM

He is a robot.

Red Tornado from DC also gets blown up a lot.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134674: Sep 29th 2021 at 10:14:00 PM

Depends on how you define death.

The two times I mentioned didn't kill him. He was just put in robot comas for a while slash until he was repaired.

He gets blasted in half and put in a tube in Busiek's run, because Busiek loves calling back to older runs. That didn't kill him either but he was not able to be an active Avenger until his legs grew back. But he at least kept his social life up by interacting as a hologram.

The first thing I can remember that I'd count as an actual death for Vision is when the government disassembled him into his component parts. Even though he was put back together, it destroyed the personality and emotions he'd had.

In a bit of a niche case he's torn in half by She-Hulk during Disassembled to get him to stop vomiting up Ultrons and he's treated as if he's dead and he's basically left in a box in Tony's lab forever and his programming is used to make the Young Avengers version of the Vision who is and isn't the Vision. But then it turns out that whatever Tony was using to fix Vision just took a really, really long time so eventually he's repaired and has his memories and such. So was that a death or another robot coma by other means?

Vision also probably died in Earth or universe ending calamities, same as everyone else. Everyone in the universe gets a few death counters by default because everything periodically explodes.

But in terms of actually dying dying Vision doesn't do that very often. He's ridiculously resilient in the sense that he can be basically fatally wounded but get up good as new several years later after a long rest.

Unlike his son Vin who go fatally electrocuted once and died forever of it.

Edited by Bocaj on Sep 29th 2021 at 1:14:57 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#134675: Sep 29th 2021 at 11:06:57 PM

Death is kinda hard to define for a being whose thoughts can be transferred, uploaded/downloaded, or even just physically reassembled and turned back on provided it's not been ground to a fine dust.

The only reason death is such an absolute and irreversible thing for humans is because their hard drives are made of squishy stuff that's very hard to put back together once it's been blown to chunks or begun to deteriorate.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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