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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134576: Sep 28th 2021 at 7:40:29 AM

[up] What a riot.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#134577: Sep 28th 2021 at 8:01:41 AM

Yeah, the game was meamt to be realistic, but then Ms Marvel grows her legs MODOK has a giant head and Abomination looks like the comic Abomination.

Just Makima.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134578: Sep 28th 2021 at 8:06:35 AM

Confused art direction

It happened in Assemble as well. All the characters that had been in the MCU looked like the MCU. Any character that hadn’t been adapted yet looked like the comics except with the MCU palette

Looked bad.

Same thing weirdly happened in the Ultimate universe once it got long in the tooth and the original writers and artists had been replaced

Characters that hadn’t been used in ultimate yet showed up looking more like their 616 selves than an ultimate version of themselves and it clashed badly

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134579: Sep 28th 2021 at 8:11:12 AM

Meanwhile the Insomniac Spider-Man games are realistic and manage to maintain the bright colors well.

I think the most striking thing is that I checked the skins in Avengers, majority recolors cause bullshit, and Cap doesn't have his classic costume. Its weird the one that says classic is basically just his shitty game costume with the riot gear armor.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#134580: Sep 28th 2021 at 8:28:24 AM

There's also just a very strong counter-culture right now when it comes to the MCU and its influence on everything else Marvel-wise. It's obviously at it strongest with all things X-Men because of the Fox ban but it's gotten to this point where people are weirdly romantic towards "the true comics", as if Marvel hasn't ever been brand-synergistic as fuck.

Case in point: I've seen a lot of people wring their hands over the appearance of Iron Man, Captain America, and Captain Marvel in Midnight Suns. Shove Wolverine front and center in an occult game? Obviously a valid pick given all the occult stuff (read: everything stuff) Logan's dealt with. Iron Man on the side? Executive Meddling, get that shit outta here.

Our very strength incites challenge. Challenge incites conflict. And conflict...breeds catastrophe. [lol]

No but for real I have to admit I'm not super kind to the sentiment given a lot of the internet's nostalgia is for the 90s when Marvel was X-Men & Spider-Man & everyone else, and I'm a much bigger fan of the prospective upcoming status quo that's significantly more even-handed between all corners of the MU.

Edited by Watchtower on Sep 28th 2021 at 11:29:41 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#134581: Sep 28th 2021 at 8:32:44 AM

My Marvel Comics nostalgia is solidly rooted in the Silver Age, so I'm an exception. That was back when the characters were new, they didn't even HAVE adaptations to synergize with.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134582: Sep 28th 2021 at 8:52:34 AM

To take a middle stance, it’s not like the MCU doesn’t have great and accurate depictions of the character. It just tends to have a bit of a stranglehold on the portrayal of other adaptations.

It’s like how whenever Avengers or Guardians shows up in something it’s always the original movie line-up creating a rather rigid use of characters similar to complaints how Justice League keeps reusing the 7 over and over again.

And on the rare times there’s an an actually bad portrayal that sticks like how Avengers Assemble used the ugly Age of Ultron design instead of Ultron’s normal look.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134583: Sep 28th 2021 at 9:15:28 AM

Avengers Assemble could have been saved by good writing but it definitely didn't have it.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#134584: Sep 28th 2021 at 9:17:36 AM

I heard later seasons got better. Especially the one focusing on Black Panther.

Now that I think about it, the Black Panther DLC for the Avengers game was also well-received.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#134585: Sep 28th 2021 at 9:34:17 AM

On the topic of Joss Whedon's Infinity War, I think the movie would have been made fundamentally differently from the ground up if Whedon had been making it. The whole bit where it's primarily Thanos's film as he takes apart one group of heroes after another wouldn't have happened.

I still remember something he said about 2012's Avengers. He made the statement that the main conflicts that the Avengers face have to be internal because the Avengers are so powerful that they can just defeat any foe, overcome any obstacle, etc. No external force could ever, ever threaten them if they worked together; they can only ever defeat themselves, not be defeated.

So the core conflict of any given Avengers film (per Whedon) must be the Avengers vs. Themselves, with the villain simply providing impetus for that conflict. The moment they put aside their differences and come together as one, the villain's defeat is always inevitable.

If Joss Whedon had made Infinity War, I feel confident that it would have basically been Civil War Part II. The main focus would have been on Team Tony and Team Steve duking it out over their conflicting ideals for how to combat Thanos, before ultimately agreeing to work together and defeating Thanos in the third act.

Resolving the bad blood created by Civil War and everyone's feelings around the Sokovia Accords would be the movie's chief focus, with Thanos being a scary-yet-quippy bad guy who exists to make the conflict occur. And the Snap absolutely would not occur.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 28th 2021 at 9:36:18 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#134586: Sep 28th 2021 at 9:36:41 AM

I will fully agree that there's been some absolute tryharding when it comes to aping the MCU vibe. Marvel could absolutely afford to give things a bit more leeway especially with a lot of the comics themselves just doing whatever they want at this point. I'm hoping now that Marvel's basically "won the war" we see more freedom, something we might at least be getting already on the gaming side.

It's mainly that a lot of complaints I've run into have gotten increasingly superficial (Cap not using the 60s costume, Iron Man being a popular character, etc.) and a fair amount honestly comes off like 90s X-Men fans wanting them to be the top dog again. Also I'm totally down for the synergy if it comes to actually pushing diversity picks (Falcon as Cap, Ms. America, Echo, etc.)

Edited by Watchtower on Sep 28th 2021 at 12:38:11 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#134587: Sep 28th 2021 at 10:13:23 AM

[up][up]

The funny thing is, that the version of Infinity War that we got actually proved Whedon right.

The Avengers were scattered and not really working together as they should have been, and because of that, they lost.

One Strip! One Strip!
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134588: Sep 28th 2021 at 10:20:48 AM

The Avengers were scattered and not really working together as they should have been, and because of that, they lost.

All except Tony and Clint, really. Because all the other Avengers (both "official Avengers" and "Secret Avengers") were in Wakanda save for those two. If Tony and Doctor Strange had taken the Time Stone to Wakanda, instead of taking it to Titan, they'd have made it harder for Thanos' victory to be guaranteed because he wouldn't be able to undo Wanda's destruction of the Mind Stone.

Okey Dokey!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#134589: Sep 28th 2021 at 10:44:05 AM

Well, Thor also chose to go off on his find a new weapon to kill Thanos mission. He and the Guardians also should have worked together, instead of splitting up.

But I can get that. He doesn't know the Guardians, and is only keeping himself sane via focusing on revenge.

I'm not gonna get into how much Starlord does or doesn't suck, because I'm sick of talking about that and look forward to the third movie hopefully fixing him....or killing him so we can end that conversation.

One Strip! One Strip!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134590: Sep 28th 2021 at 10:45:43 AM

[up][up] Yeah, but how would Tony and Strange know that the rest of the Avengers were in Wakanda? They got interrupted by Ebony Maw before Tony hit the call button, their signal to Earth got lost so they had no way of contacting Earth to communicate a strategy, and I'm pretty sure trying to turn around the giant donut they're flying in and point it back to where they came from would be pretty difficult, much less Wakanda specifically.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Sep 28th 2021 at 10:46:12 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#134591: Sep 28th 2021 at 10:47:01 AM

[up]x6: Pretty much agree with all of it though it does beg the question: if Whedon's Infinity War is basically Whedon's Civil War 2, then what does Whedon's Civil War 1 look like?

I imagine it's mostly the same except the end: Zemo would likely sincerely revive the other Winter Soldiers, forcing Cap and Bucky to plead with Tony to stop the real villain. Tony relents, fight scene happens, Black Panther pulls a Big Damn Heroes, and Zemo's captured. The ending however is even more bittersweet: instead of just Tony left sulking and Cap on the run, it's two Avengers teams in an ongoing civil war until Thanos strolls in.

So yeah, Whedon's MCU saga consists of him basically redoing the Avengers infighting over and over again with worse end-states each time. Thank god that didn't happen.

Edited by Watchtower on Sep 28th 2021 at 1:49:07 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134592: Sep 28th 2021 at 11:10:02 AM

Okay I know I grumble a lot about Guardians but I actually do respect the changes made for the movie. I can understand Gunn, I mean the Dn A Guardians is a lot especially for the point the MCU was at when it came out, Hell its success is what lead to greater acceptance of comic elements in film.

And the Guardians are a lot, they were essentially a superteam capable of taking on large armies and interdimensional threats especially with the help of actually superpowered mates. The original members included Major Victory who is a time-traveler energy being with Captain America's shield, Adam Warlock who is a wizard, and Quasar wielder of the star-bands which is around Captain Marvel's ballpark of power.

So the whole thing got distilled. The team got parred down to the 5 with Groot as the only outright superpowered one, and overall equipment got simplified (Star Lord lost his element gun).

About my only issues about the effect it has on adaptations aside from the team rigidity is that I don't like how Star Lord is now always characterized as a frat-bro douchebag his team never respects and the extreme reverence for the 80s the franchise now has. Like the Guardians game has Rocket wearing a visor made from a repurposed game controller, WTF why is the 80s so shilled?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#134593: Sep 28th 2021 at 11:22:00 AM

[up][up]Worth noting is that Whedon advised the Civil War comics ending where Captain America is arrested (he felt there should be a definitive winner) so perhaps he would end the movie similarly instead of Cap and co. becoming fugitives.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134594: Sep 28th 2021 at 11:28:19 AM

[up][up] Guardians and Stranger Things do have a bit of an eighties romanticism problem. While I do like it at times, I'll admit I'm a little tired of seeing the 80s specifically as a period piece / homage. I'm actually somewhat grateful that WandaVision didn't focus too much on the 80s elements in their fifth episode, even if I do consider it to be my least favorite episode.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#134595: Sep 28th 2021 at 11:36:18 AM

WTF why is the 80s so shilled?

Pretty much because those who were kids in the 80s are old enough to be showrunning media now.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134596: Sep 28th 2021 at 11:53:25 AM

Like I barely pay attention to the decades passing me, I don't understand why there is such incessant devotion to it.

Well then again I'm 22 so I guess its an old guy thing.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#134597: Sep 28th 2021 at 12:11:14 PM

On the topic of the MCU recursively affecting stuff: In the ongoing X-Men: The Trial of Magneto event we see (a version of?) Wanda getting The Big Damn Kiss and reuniting with Vision, and I just know it's an attempt at WandaVision synergy (got me rolling my eyes since I was enjoying her new thing with Brother Voodoo).

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#134598: Sep 28th 2021 at 12:22:27 PM

I think that was more of a clear Foreshadowing that something is wrong with the situation, and it is a kind of misdirect.

Also, you know, spoilers.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#134599: Sep 28th 2021 at 1:11:20 PM

WTF why is the 80s so shilled?

I have the theory that the 80's, as the quintessential decade of abundance and excess (at least in pop culture), acquired a whole new place of worship given the past decade (maybe past two decades) have been largely shaped by poverty, absence and hunger. Starving people dreaming of full bellies, in essence.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134600: Sep 28th 2021 at 1:28:58 PM

Like I can give a pass to the songs since that actually is a pretty good character bit with Star Lord, being the last remnant he has of his beloved mom and plus the songs are pretty good.

But the whole dead mom thing doesn't exactly get delved upon in latter shit and so its just flandarized into just being 80s, 80s, 80s. Shit in the game Star Lord's super mode has him blasting out Bad Reputation by Joan Jett and The Blackhearts.

Its just random-ass 80s shit for the sake of having 80s shit.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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