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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#134326: Sep 24th 2021 at 9:31:18 AM

That sound you hear is Disney's lawyers laughing

You sure that sound isn't them screaming a collective "holy shit"?

In all seriousness, this is probably so that Steve Ditko's family gets even more compensation for how much money his creations are generating, right?

I mean, what would happen if we suddenly didn't have Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and the Avengers?

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 24th 2021 at 12:32:16 PM

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#134327: Sep 24th 2021 at 9:31:23 AM

While I expect Disney's infinite coffers will do the work for them, I do hope this amounts to compensation for the movies more substantial than $5000 and a premiere ticket.

Still, I'm always down for anything that dents the mouse monopoly, so let's see.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#134328: Sep 24th 2021 at 9:46:38 AM

> You sure that sound isn't them screaming a collective "holy shit"?

No because they're picking a fight with the Mouse to steal his billion dollar cheese

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#134329: Sep 24th 2021 at 10:04:34 AM

If I understand my copyright law right, even when the Spider-Man copyright expires, Marvel will still have IP rights to most of the post-Ditko material (Kraven's Last Hunt, for example, wouldn't be in the public domain even when Amazing Fantasy #15 goes there). This is also separate from trademarks, which is about merchandising, so maybe Marvel could still make money even if they lose the rights (although that is a big if). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134330: Sep 24th 2021 at 10:08:20 AM

Heh funny bit about Kraven’s Last Hunt is that it will prolly never get an adaptation of some kind.

Well written as it is it’s also way too dark and brutal, I can’t imagine the MCU will ever adapt such a story.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#134331: Sep 24th 2021 at 10:10:05 AM

They'll find a way even if they have to water it down like they did with the Iron man's class demon

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#134332: Sep 24th 2021 at 10:11:41 AM

Kraven's Last Hunt is weird. It's Kraven's best story bar none and the one sets him apart from other Spider-Villains, but in addition to [up]x2 it's also relies pretty heavily on continuity. Like, it's the last Kraven story (Brand New Day shenanigans notwithstanding), so to adapt it, you'd have to have Kraven already appearing in the MCU beforehand, and you'd need Peter's relationship with MJ to be serious enough to motivate him to dig himself out of the grave.

[nja]'d

Edited by Aleistar on Sep 24th 2021 at 1:11:56 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#134333: Sep 24th 2021 at 10:17:09 AM

They also have to be willing to put Kraven in a movie first.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#134334: Sep 24th 2021 at 10:20:33 AM

You can change Peter’s motivation to dig out of a grave. There’s a lot of good motivation to not be buried alive.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#134335: Sep 24th 2021 at 10:22:26 AM

I mean, they did just hire Aaron Taylor-Johnson for that not too long ago.

[up]x2 [nja]'d

Edited by Aleistar on Sep 24th 2021 at 1:23:02 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134336: Sep 24th 2021 at 10:34:27 AM

It’s interesting that the main issue with adapting Last Hunt is that it requires Kraven to have previously made appearances as an antagonist as it notes that the MCU doesn’t really do reoccurring antagonists.

Majority if not all the villains that appear here are one-offs barring Thanos and Loki.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#134337: Sep 24th 2021 at 10:43:38 AM

Earlier, I found that the Steve Ditko estate, specifically headed by Steve's brother Patrick, is trying to reclaim the copyrights to both Spider-Man and Doctor Strange.

Awesome. Regardless of how this pans out I'm always in favor of the creators or heirs (since many of the original Golden and Silver Age Marvel/Atlas/Timely guys are dead) holding The Mouse's feet to the fire. In a perfect world this at least leads to better compensation practices for creators whose work is adapted into the MCU and other venues.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134338: Sep 24th 2021 at 11:11:54 AM

I think a What If for Cap's team recruiting him instead would be more plausible. I'm kind of doubtful about him being convinced to switch sides mid-fight. I mean, we know from his line "Mr. Stark said you would say that." that Tony already considered the possibility of Cap trying to talk him down, and had prepared Spidey to not be willing to listen.

I think it would play out something like this, honestly.

Okey Dokey!
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#134339: Sep 24th 2021 at 11:35:38 AM

Found a weird angle to this Ditko Estate Lawsuit. (I'm no law expert, so feel free to correct me.)

If the lawsuit ends up going nowhere, then Sony will still be able to do Spider-Movies, but if it actually ends up succeeding, then it gives the Steve Ditko estate the chance to sell the rights to Spider-Man. This ends up giving Disney the chance to own Spider-Man completely without having to share with Sony (and puts the kibosh on the SPUMC), but then that has the side effect of us not seeing any more of the actual good stuff like Into the Spider-Verse or the PS4 Spider-Man game.

Now that I think about it, maybe this lawsuit isn't the worst thing ever?

For starters, Disney's legal team might as well be the Godzilla of legal teams. Second, I'm starting to think this is mostly so the Steve Ditko estate gets better compensation besides a wad of cash and some special tickets. If I'm not mistaken, even in life, Steve got the short end of the stick and kinda isolated himself because of it. Literally everyone knows Spider-Man and Stan Lee, but how many know Steve Ditko as much as they know either of those two aside from comic book creators, hardcore nerds and historians?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#134340: Sep 24th 2021 at 11:37:00 AM

Steve Ditko is still fairly well known even among non comic book fans

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#134341: Sep 24th 2021 at 11:41:34 AM

Not always for the right reasons, but yeah, Steve Ditko is quite (in)famous.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#134342: Sep 24th 2021 at 11:43:35 AM

Steve Ditko is still fairly well known even among non comic book fans

Wait, really? Because I can't think of any time I had a conversation with a non-comic book guy and Ditko came up...

The point is, I'm not freaking out about the lawsuit as much as I was last night. Ditko co-created Spider-Man, easily one of the biggest works of modern-day fiction, if not the biggest, period. His family should be way more compensated than just $5000 and other teeny stuff.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134343: Sep 24th 2021 at 11:46:17 AM

As I recall he’s an objectivist.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#134344: Sep 24th 2021 at 11:49:19 AM

I rolled my eyes so hard at the news of the lawsuit they rolled out of their sockets,the lawsuit isn't going to achieve ANYTHING,its a frivolous lawsuit

Edited by Ultimatum on Sep 24th 2021 at 6:50:43 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134345: Sep 24th 2021 at 12:07:41 PM

lawyers are scawy tho

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#134346: Sep 24th 2021 at 12:07:57 PM

Regarding Kraven's Last Hunt, this is actually something I brought up before. Even if you disregard specific elements that shoulder the plot (Ned Leeds's then-recent death, MJ and Pete being a happy official couple living together), there's the wrinkle that it is specifically a story that requires Kraven and Spidey to have had met before. The whole core of the story is Kraven at the end of his rope doing his last move against Spidey before his body and mind collapses for good.

It's part of a category of stories in comics that are specifically structured around upending some form of status quo as its crux. You have "Born Again" with Kingpin (it's core is Kingpin finally having DD's secret identity and using to his full advantage. doesn't work if you don't establish their rivalry before) as another example. Batman's Knightfall is another one but in reverse (Bane is being introduced here, but the story is built on changing Batman "forever" by crippling him, it doesn't really work if you haven't really seen him not-crippled before), Killing Joke is also this to a minor extent (but with Babs rather than Bats).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#134347: Sep 24th 2021 at 12:13:15 PM

I feel like Kraven’s Last Hunt can be adapted but only as a direct sequel to the new Spider-Man 2 game.

The legend has returned.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#134348: Sep 24th 2021 at 12:15:04 PM

Theoretically it is possible since the MCU is now running long enough to form long term stories.

Its just we haven't done anything like at least small-scale. As I said nearly every villain either dies or gets redeemed after their first appearance barring Thanos, Zemo, and Loki.

We might get an aversion with say Vulture should he ever comes back as a Thunderbolt or member of the Sinister Six.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 24th 2021 at 12:21:58 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134349: Sep 24th 2021 at 12:20:40 PM

Abomination also is coming back, so that's a thing. And the Ten Rings are still a thing, and likely won't be good guys. So who knows?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#134350: Sep 24th 2021 at 1:09:14 PM

Kraven's Last Hunt kinda falls flat as a concept if it's also his first hunt. tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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