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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#134201: Sep 22nd 2021 at 9:21:10 PM

I think "[character] from What If...? [episode]" is clearest, though if someone has a (nick)name officially or within the episode, that's OK, too. (Strange Supreme, Party Pooper [lol])

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#134202: Sep 23rd 2021 at 1:05:53 AM

MCU Juggernaut will probably be a Mutant too if he's introduced with the X-Men. It's just too complicated to also introduce a demon god into the mix.

Disgusted, but not surprised
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#134203: Sep 23rd 2021 at 1:15:23 AM

The Deadpool 2 version of Juggernaut did seem to "just" be a powerful mutant instead of mystically powered, though if he's going to follow DP into the MCU we don't know.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#134204: Sep 23rd 2021 at 1:59:02 AM

Most adaptations of Cain Marko so far have been Mutants. The original 90's animated series Juggernaut is the only one that kept the mystical origin. Though even that one didn't introduce Cyttorak himself, just the Gem.

Edited by M84 on Sep 23rd 2021 at 4:59:46 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#134205: Sep 23rd 2021 at 2:35:32 AM

X-Men Evolution kind of combined the two origins by saying Cain awakened his mutation through mysticism.

Was there any specific Doylist reason Cain in the comics wasn't a mutant?

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#134206: Sep 23rd 2021 at 2:51:55 AM

He was step-brother of Charles Xavier so didn't have the mutant gene. His method/motive for getting powers is somewhat variable due to various retcons/expansions of the tale but he was expressly a non-mutant.

The Doylist explanation for this I don't think has been discussed much and again the changes/retcons affect it but it's most likely to be a way of showing that Cain was motivated by envy and did a Deal with the Devil purely to get back at the "naturally" super powered Charles.

Edited by jakobitis on Sep 23rd 2021 at 2:56:07 AM

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#134207: Sep 23rd 2021 at 3:10:02 AM

The Nineties Animated series version even factored this into his bullying of Charles when they were kids, calling him a "mutie" in front of the other kids.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#134208: Sep 23rd 2021 at 5:30:36 AM

And he always gets insulted whenever somebody calls him a mutant.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#134209: Sep 23rd 2021 at 5:33:25 AM

10 Hate mutants

20 Internalise feeling inadequate

30 Gain power to be better than mutants

40 Be mistaken for being a mutant

50 go to 10

Edited by Whowho on Sep 23rd 2021 at 1:36:56 PM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#134210: Sep 23rd 2021 at 5:36:37 AM

Agreed that most What If versions don't really need their own folder. The trope itself can just reference the show in question if necessary.

And this isn't limited to the What If...? variants. I feel like on the character page for Thanos, there should be separate folders pertaining to his Infinity War and Endgame variants because there are a lot of distinct differences between the two versions (like Infinity War Thanos respecting his opponents like Tony, Strange, and Wanda; whereas his Endgame counterpart doesn't).

Okey Dokey!
Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#134211: Sep 23rd 2021 at 6:24:42 AM

[up] Yep, it was discussed multiple times and everyone agrees on that, but no one is willing to do the actual split smile

Any volunteers?

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#134212: Sep 23rd 2021 at 7:16:58 AM

The Deadpool 2 version of Juggernaut did seem to "just" be a powerful mutant instead of mystically powered, though if he's going to follow DP into the MCU we don't know.

Doubt it. Both Colossus and Juggernaut are 100% CGI monsters, I imagine the MCU will still heavily create them with CGI but are still going to want actual people behind them.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#134213: Sep 23rd 2021 at 8:01:06 AM

The Deadpool films are supposed to be at least somewhat in-line with the Fox X-Men films, so I assumed Deadpool 2's Juggernaut was supposed to be the same version of the character as the one we saw in X-Men 3. That Juggernaut was explicitly a mutant.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#134214: Sep 23rd 2021 at 8:06:01 AM

While Deadpool films are definitely canon to the X-Men film series, the series runs on Broad Strokes, especially with regards to the Deadpool movies. So no I don't consider those juggernauts the same. If you wanted to take the continuity more seriously, you could point out that Deadpool Juggernaut is in the rebooted timeline and the original Juggernaut was not.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#134215: Sep 23rd 2021 at 8:44:25 AM

They don't usually do the gem of Cyorrak thing because random magic stuff is a curveball to throw into an X-Men property. But since this is a shared universe and we know magic exists Juggernaut wouldn't be so out of place.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#134216: Sep 23rd 2021 at 8:46:26 AM

Yeah, I actually hope they incorporate the X-Men more into the magic and alien sides of the MCU, as a way to differentiate it from the Fox-Men. Have Juggernaut be Xavier's brother and magically empowered, it's a different route.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134217: Sep 23rd 2021 at 10:00:21 AM

I'm all for a reimagining of the X-Men and incorporating a mix of both magical and scientific explanations for different students and X-Men. I just hope to God they don't try to adapt the Phoenix saga again. There are better, less tired stories to tell.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#134218: Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:03:19 AM

The Phoenix Saga, I think will be off limits for a long while.

After two failed attempts at it, I figure Marvel is gonna give it a wide berth.

And that's a shame, because despite becoming something of a Plot Tumour in the comics, the original saga was and is still excellent, but ultimately, people are probably burned out on that.

One Strip! One Strip!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#134219: Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:18:35 AM

The Fox-Men paced through (at least nominally) a lot of comic storylines to the extent that it will be legitimately interesting to see where the MCU would go with it.

I think the most major element not brought up by the Fox-Men at all was Mr. Sinister so him would be an obvious Big Bad to use here. Maybe use the Legacy Virus in some fashion, considering we're hot on the heels of COVID-19 (though not as a bioweapon as that would fuel conspiracy theories, but I can see Legacy Virus as naturally occurring and the government going "ah fuck 'em, just let them die" as a transparent metaphor for how governments let the oppressed die in the face of COVID), but that would require some cojones the MCU might not have.

Genosha as well is also kind of there to be used it, though they'd need to update the metaphor (Apartheid ended 30 years ago).

Edited by Gaon on Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:19:11 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#134220: Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:19:53 AM

[up]Well, they did seem to be trying to make Sinister their Thanos, but the buyout put an end to that before it could really take off.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134221: Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:25:25 AM

[up][up] While I like your idea, trying to make parallels to COVID and the government's response to it while still in the middle of COVID isn't really a smart move in my opinion. It's bad enough that the Snap aftermath has unintentional parallels to COVID with empty cities and whatnot. Having a plot like that would be a little too on the nose right now.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:26:13 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#134222: Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:27:49 AM

You're assuming COVID will still be going on when this hypothetical movie comes out, which I don't think was the intention.

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#134223: Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:28:36 AM

Characters like Jubilee and Dazzler need a modern reinvention, since they both embody the 90's.

Just Makima.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#134224: Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:33:33 AM

[up] I actually don't know too much about either of those characters. All I know is that Jubilee was sort of a Memetic Loser in the Fox universe because she was never properly utilized, and there was an April Fools joke in 2014 that said Dazzler was going to be played by Lady Gaga.

[up][up] I'm going into this fully expecting COVID to last the rest of this decade. I know you all will think I sound paranoid, but I just want to be prepared for disappointment.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:34:20 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#134225: Sep 23rd 2021 at 11:35:01 AM

Yeah I'm thinking it'll be some good 5-8 years before we get a proper X-Men film off the ground. MCU slate is filled to the brim as is (and I have the feeling we'll get solo movies of various mutants before a team-up). And by the end I expect COVID-19 to be handled at least somewhat so it would be recent but not as it is happening.

As for Dazzler, she's so dated she's timeless as 1980's nostalgia is a huge thing right now and I could definitely see her as some kind of In-Universe indie-ish 80's throwback artist. That's all the rage these days.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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