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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133701: Sep 16th 2021 at 4:49:49 PM

Oh right the full name of Ultimate Iron Man is Antonio Stark.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#133702: Sep 16th 2021 at 4:55:57 PM

[up][up] Unlike the case of Kang, the Fantastic Four have already appeared on the big screen no less than three times (four if you count the unreleased 1994 film). And the physical appearances of the FF are so recognizable to casual audiences and comic books fans that changing most or all of them might just cause quite a backlash especially the latter. Also, Jon Watts is directing this film and if his Spider-Man movies are any indication, he might keep the races of all the FF members since they're too iconic though I could see him race swap some of the supporting cast and rogues gallery, it's also not the first time this has happened just look at Alicia Masters in the Tim Story duology.

Also assuming if Reed's race is not changed, they could explain that he has a non-white descendant who is descended from a mixed race Richards who married a black woman in the future to explain why he doesn't look like his ancestor.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Sep 16th 2021 at 4:59:46 AM

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133703: Sep 16th 2021 at 5:02:07 PM

they could explain that he has a non-white descendant who is descended from a mixed race Richards who married a black woman in the future to explain why he doesn't look like his ancestor.

...Yes, I literally said this upthread.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#133705: Sep 16th 2021 at 5:27:19 PM

I feel like the most people would be upset about Ben being black since he turns into a neon orange rock man early into the movie.

The legend has returned.
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#133706: Sep 16th 2021 at 5:30:37 PM

Well Ben in the comics is Jewish much like his creator Jack Kirby and that's an aspect of his character that Marvel might not change.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133707: Sep 16th 2021 at 5:32:00 PM

[up][up]Yeah, this. It's a known "discount diversity" tactic of Disney's.

[up]...Black Jewish people exist

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 16th 2021 at 7:32:41 AM

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#133708: Sep 16th 2021 at 5:43:11 PM

I know. Moving on from Fantastic Four, Secret Wars (2015) is going to be adapted as the next Myth Arc of the MCU what will Loki bringing up the Multiversal War and What If exploring alternate timelines. It also provide the opportunity to bring back the likes of Iron Man, Captain America (Steve Rogers) and Black Widow through alternate versions of the characters teaming up with the mainline Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men, Fantastic Four, Deadpool and others. That is assuming if their actors are willing to return and Johansson might not do it because of a lawsuit with Disney.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Sep 16th 2021 at 5:45:41 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133709: Sep 16th 2021 at 5:56:17 PM

Yeah race-lifting Ben is out of the question since he'll be spending the majority of his appearance as a nonhuman.

Reed, Sue, and Johnny are more liable to get such treatment.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#133710: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:04:00 PM

Also assuming if Reed's race is not changed, they could explain that he has a non-white descendant who is descended from a mixed race Richards who married a black woman in the future to explain why he doesn't look like his ancestor.

This is, of course, provided they adapt Kang being related to Reed at all.

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#133711: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:06:32 PM

For that part, I think Kang will remain related to Reed like in the comics. As I said, should Reed keep his race as is, Marvel might just make MCU Kang his non-white descendant and it's not completely unheard of for white people to have black relatives like one user pointed out.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#133712: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:07:33 PM

[up][up][up] Black Jews exist but the likelihood of Ben Grimm being portrayed as white Ashkenazi is really high especially since he's a New Yorker as well.

I brought up the race-lift question predominantly because of a beat I heard from Bob Chipman: yes, technically there's nothing forcing Reed and/or Sue to be black because of Kang but fiction is fiction and thus Same Surname Means Related is extremely likely to be in full effect. It's an idea I've increasingly come to terms with over the last few months, and between the two I actually can't help but bias towards a black Sue if only because that would also mean black Johnny and I'm honestly cool with that. Basically make up for Fant4stic by actually committing to the idea fully and properly.

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#133713: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:11:07 PM

[up][up] Then again, there are instances of characters sharing the same surname without being related (i.e. Sam Wilson/Falcon and Wade Wilson/Deadpool). Also, the FF is popular and recognizable among fans like Spider-Man (just not as much as him) so they could keep their races as is with some Hand-Waving for why MCU Reed and Kang don't look like each other (for the reasons I already explained).

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Sep 16th 2021 at 6:11:41 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133714: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:11:38 PM

Granted Kang takes place in the far, far future when ethnicity's lost all meaning.

Kang may look black but he's also probably a little bit of everything.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133715: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:12:16 PM

He could also have a white Ashkenazi Jewish parent, like Rashida Jones.

Overall I am pretty pessimistic that they'll be racelifted at all (we are but less than a year from "maybe Tilda Swinton was a mistake..."), but of note, the reason Peter's supporting cast got diversified was explicitly because of NY's diversity.

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 16th 2021 at 8:12:47 AM

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#133716: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:12:25 PM

I know. The character is unambiguously white though he did pose as an Egyptian pharoah in the comics.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#133717: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:12:31 PM

Now if I write for marvel I’m going to do a storyline teasing that Wade and Sam are related

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133718: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:16:29 PM

[up][up][up] Oh yeah Marvel really loves to toot their own horn about Peter's classmates.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133719: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:18:48 PM

Admittedly him being a White Male Lead is still better than all of them being white.

Diversity half measures!

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133720: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:22:30 PM

I think the real half-measure is the fact their all background extras for the most part.

Barring Ned, MJ, and Flash, I can't really name or remember any of Peter's classmates barring the girl Ned dates and that guy who competed with Peter over MJ's attentions.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#133721: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:34:02 PM

You can’t name Liz?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133723: Sep 16th 2021 at 6:42:21 PM

Right Liz.

Poor girl, shame what happened to her.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#133724: Sep 16th 2021 at 7:45:41 PM

There seems to be some kind of controversy happening with Simu Liu right now, at least on Twitter. Is anyone else following it?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#133725: Sep 16th 2021 at 7:50:03 PM

It's just a bunch of nationalist CCP shills giving the guy shit for praising a lemon tea drink made by Vitasoy, a Hong Kong beverage company.

Edited by M84 on Sep 16th 2021 at 10:50:31 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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