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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#133651: Sep 15th 2021 at 8:31:31 AM

Welp, I was certainly fooled.

I still think he'll show up though.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#133652: Sep 15th 2021 at 8:32:20 AM

There's so much fan build-up for NWH, I'm kinda of afraid that there's gonna be a huge fan backlash if fans' made up expectations aren't met.

I'm talking Last Jedi levels of backlash if Maguire and Garfield don't appear or have just glorified cameos.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133653: Sep 15th 2021 at 8:37:17 AM

something something history repeats

[up][up][up]Yeah, I'm at least hoping for a He Who Remains situation where it was like "I'm not showing up as Kang, wym"?

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 15th 2021 at 10:37:29 AM

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#133654: Sep 15th 2021 at 8:54:04 AM

wild mass guess Maguire and Garfield DO show up but as completely random schmoes with no spider powers whatsoever.wild mass guess

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#133655: Sep 15th 2021 at 8:54:41 AM

Yeah, at this point, I'm more or less expecting a massive fan outcry over No Way Home. There is no way the film is actually going to deliver all the things that the fans have decided that it must be.

Same with Multiverse of Madness, for that matter. People are going to loathe these films for being, like, actual movies about a specific story and not just three hour Fanon Confirmation sequences.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 15th 2021 at 8:55:18 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#133656: Sep 15th 2021 at 8:55:33 AM

wild mass guessMaguire and Garfield just get cameos referencing Stan Lee's own cameos in their movies.wild mass guess

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133657: Sep 15th 2021 at 8:55:59 AM

wild mass guessMaguire and Garfield are, respectively, the Broadway actor in the sequel to Rogers the Musical and his understudy who approach Peter for authenticity.wild mass guess

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 15th 2021 at 10:57:03 AM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#133658: Sep 15th 2021 at 9:18:14 AM

Reading through most of the comments I actually agree with the general callout of the lack of a "base actor" for the deepfake to work off of. After all you need someone to provide the facial movements the deepfake is going to be applied on top of, you can't just create that from scratch.

Assuming the debunk is real there may well be a guy that provided the facial mocap that is being hidden from the video for any number of reasons but that ironically hits the same "lore" problem that fans keep running into: fans keep working backwards to justify their conclusions, and fans keep thinking whatever "theory" they conjure in their head is effectively factual so long as it isn't contradicted. It happened with the Grinch "leak", it happened with the Mephisto "rumors", and it'll keep happening so long as fans refuse to separate their head-canons from reality. And it works both ways, from "leakers" to "debunkers", because both sides are filled with fans that'll fall for the same traps regardless (the video being all like "Andrew Garfield was never in No Way Home, I made it all up to troll you lol cool" being an example of that).

....That is a lot more words than I expected to say on all this crap. Bottom line is yeah, I'm fully expecting NWH and MOM to be absolute shit-shows because a lot of fans have their expectations over the fucking stars because if the Wandavision backlash proves anything it's that fans care shit-tons more about fanservice, lore, and setup for the next dumps of fanservice and lore than they do about the actual stories being told. And I say that as someone that actually buys some of these theories, but I'm not gonna flip into a goddamn rage just because they're proven wrong. Shit, if the Venom 2 leaks prove anything it's just how well the MCU's done at actually weaving shit together.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#133659: Sep 15th 2021 at 9:31:39 AM

Yeah, I say this as someone who LOVED Wandavision and didn't find out about the rumors until after I finished it (I was actually SURPRISED by the Agatha reveal, shocker I know, my first thought was not that the quirky neighbor is some C-List villain I've barely heard of), I HATE the fan speculation.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#133660: Sep 15th 2021 at 9:44:54 AM

Generally speaking, it's all about execution. If No Way Home has Toby and Andrew, but they have nothing to do or are otherwise gratuitous cameos, it'll be in the service of nothing. Remember, Holland is the star. It's his story they're telling. So, what's important is if the film will have something meaningful to explore with his version of Spider-Man.

Like, there's a reason Into the Spider-Verse was so well-received. Because underneath all the multiverse shenanigans, it was still a story about Miles and how he becomes Spider-Man. You can strip those elements away and still have a good coming of age story to build the rest of the film around. I'm just a bit worried that Holland's Spider-Man might be overshadowed in his own film.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#133661: Sep 15th 2021 at 9:51:23 AM

Absolutely agreed. It's part of why I like the idea of the Sinister Six being the main villains, but for the ultimate final boss to be Scorpion, because he was set up at the end of Homecoming and would make perfect sense for a story about JJJ hunting down Spidey as a criminal.

Ultimately Spider-Man: No Way Home and Dr. Strange: In the Multiverse of Madness should be stories focusing on the MCU Spider-Man and the MCU Dr. Strange first and foremost, anything else in them is just extra.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 15th 2021 at 9:52:02 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#133662: Sep 15th 2021 at 10:21:00 AM

Yeah, I've been afraid of a similar reaction as TLJ got for a long time. We'll see if MCU fans will be more mature, but my gut doubts it.

Heh watched this scene and damn Molten Man's character here would make a good villain for a movie.

Molten Man is great. Though Spectacular made a new story for him, the core ideas of him being a crook with surprising heart are great, and I'd have loved to see him in the MCU. If they really had been going for the theorized plot of supervillains hunting down Peter post FFH, he probably would've fit right in as a villain who switches sides.

Also he's Liz' brother, which would've been a nice touch.

On that vein of really great Anti-Villains: Sandman, who deserves better than Spider-Man 3.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#133663: Sep 15th 2021 at 10:26:26 AM

He might be in No Way Home.

The legend has returned.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#133664: Sep 15th 2021 at 10:54:29 AM

Eh. I'd want an actually good, well formed Sandman from the ground up, rather than a literal port from another canon thrown into the story. It's kind of the downside to all the imported villains: even if my timeline theory turns out to be right, explicitly none of these guys are characters Peter has or knows of any history with, or characters written into his world and tone.

They're just bad dudes who - quite literally - magically showed up one day, and with characters like Sandman who thrive on what we come to know about them (since the whole thing with him is that he initially seems like just a thug, but then we find out he has layers to him, and so gradually he becomes more and more heroic), it renders them less interesting than they could be.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 15th 2021 at 11:23:04 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133665: Sep 15th 2021 at 12:07:21 PM

Shit if Norman’s being ported does that mean Harry Osborn is gonna show up?

Ya know I miss Harry, Peter’s BFF. I get they picked Ned as Peter’s friend to differentiate from previous adaptations but still. Though granted Harry was originally Peter’s friend in college so if Feige is true that he wants to move on from Peter in high-school after the 3rd movie we might get him in college meeting Harry.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#133666: Sep 15th 2021 at 12:24:25 PM

[up] Which Harry? Because if it's James Franco... it might be best to avoid bringing him back given all the allegations brought up against him.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#133667: Sep 15th 2021 at 12:31:43 PM

We should just get a new actor to play him.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133668: Sep 15th 2021 at 12:37:35 PM

I mean Harry in general and yeah we definitely should not bring Franco back.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#133669: Sep 15th 2021 at 12:57:55 PM

They could bring back Dane DeHaan.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 15th 2021 at 12:58:11 PM

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#133670: Sep 15th 2021 at 1:37:23 PM

So I guess some here have seen the alleged video of Andrew Garfield in the NWH set?

Well, the vfx artist who made it has come out and and it's definitely fake.

Okay, so, deepfaking requires the original actor to still be there so they can be masked over. That's why a lot of usages in movies cast lookalike actors to fill the as a base. The fact that this guy used a headless model, for a pose that doesn't even have an origin from other media, is pretty bizarre.

Corridor Crew, at the 15 minute mark, actually covered a more typical example:

Also, as some experienced VFX folks pointed out, there are the little details that the alleged "leaker" neglected to discuss while "making" the video (such as the second pair of Spidey hands on the left hand side of the screen). Some details that would be impossible to work from without some real life film shooting to work from.

Edited by XMenMutant22 on Sep 15th 2021 at 4:49:06 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#133671: Sep 15th 2021 at 1:39:49 PM

So this debunked video is fake. Lmao.

Edited by miraculous on Sep 15th 2021 at 1:40:00 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#133672: Sep 15th 2021 at 1:43:12 PM

everything I know is a lie!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
jdeo1997 BLADE Pathfinders from Orion–Cygnus Arm Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
BLADE Pathfinders
#133673: Sep 15th 2021 at 1:45:18 PM

So Sony and Marvel are trying their hand at 5D chess

Attachments are not the problem, Indifference is. Keelah se'lai
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133674: Sep 15th 2021 at 1:53:10 PM

To quote WR Monger "This place is an X-File...Wrapped in a Cover-Up, and DEEP FRIED in a Paranoid Conspiracy"

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#133675: Sep 15th 2021 at 1:58:59 PM

The ultimate 5D chess move would be that this is all a smokescreen and that entire marketing campaign is a lie. The story really is just Peter trying to clear his name, and Doctor Strange and the characters from the previous Spider-Man films aren't even in the film; they were just added for the trailer.

I'd eagerly await the internet's response to that evil grin

Edited by chasemaddigan on Sep 15th 2021 at 4:59:19 AM


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