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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
WELL! Grossly overdue reaction time! Tons of stuff to unpack from the Hawkeye trailer! Let's get it on!
- I remember speculating that Clint would split from Laura, so I couldn't be happier to be wrong about it (for now). (And I guess Linda Cardellini's absence is either due to scheduling conflicts or pandemic-related circumstances making what would probably a glorified if not still delightful cameo kinda not worth it.)
- Yellow background, main character in silhouette, last name being used for title, it really does look like Rogers: The Musical is the MCU equivalent of Hamilton. And Lin-Manuel Miranda is either going "challenge accepted" or getting prodded by Disney to at least do a song. (And now I can't stop rewording Hamilton's first song to involve it with Steve.)
- Can we just take a moment to silently gush at the inherent awesomeness of having Spider-Gwen as Kate?
- The trailer does ooze the sensation of a Christmas spent on kicking several asses.
- Could've sworn Lucky had two able eyes in the set photos, but I guess CG-ing a bad dog eye makes it all the more faithful to the source.
- Someone asked if anyone remembered that Iron Man 3 was set on Christmas and funnily enough, I still remember that. I almost expect Clint saying something like "And Tony thought he had a lousy Christmas..." at some point.
"Now I really hope they do Hawkeye vs. Deadpool!"
...is what I would be saying if I didn't find out that there was hostility on the set between Steinfeld and Renner thanks to the show's Trivia page on TV Tropes. Kinda crushes the good vibes if I'm honest, because the trailer has done a really great job of showcasing the Hawkeyes' dynamic.
I haven't seen anything about it anywhere else and the page itself has no source link, so I'd take it with a grain of salt.
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon![]()
I mean, I remember reading up on Renner having a feud with his ex-wife some time ago, so it's not impossible to assume the guy is prone to butting heads with people, but...
I don't know. Maybe I'm just scared at the prospect of experiencing hostility on the set myself one day.
EDIT:
We Got This Covered? Well, that changes everything. DELETE ON SIGHT. Now I feel way more at ease. Thanks, Ultimatum.
Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 14th 2021 at 1:19:44 PM
Worth noting that in the comics, Santa is not only real, but he is canonically an Omega-level reality-warping mutant.
If Santa were our first official MCU mutant I'd be totally happy with that.
Meanwhile, DC's Santa braves the armies of Apokolips every year just to give Darkseid a huge lump of coal.
I love comics.
Edited by lbssb on Sep 14th 2021 at 11:00:49 AM
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonSpeaking of Daredevil not killing...I'm up to episode ten, I think. It's been a long while so I'll just give a summary of my thoughts. WARNING: General adderall-induced rambling.
- Foggy Nelson is the true hero of this show. And because of that, he deserves better than Matt. Foggy works his ass off for a case (with little chance of success and it will kill their firm if it fails) he was forced to take because of Matt while Matt provided nearly dick-all to help with the case, seemingly ruins it in one go the one day he's here by going off-script and taking about how Frank's such a good vigilante and the cure this city needs (the fuck? Why is he repeating Frank's nonsense from the rooftop?), gets lied to about the secret client that makes Matt stay away from his bloody case for no reason, and when Foggy comes to Matt to try to see if they need to split apart (as legal partners), Matt's...pretty non-contrite, saying that he's not changing himself.
- Like, if he can't even tell what the actual problem is...should you really try to save this boat? How much effort should one have to exert to keep something going when it seems that there's no attempt by the other side to step away from their position, to even recognize what the problem is? I remember Foggy's face when Matt started talking as though he was quoting the Vigilante Bible at the trial and he looked so...betrayed. Foggy didn't try to fight their dissolution and I can't blame him. I heard that Son Of Sharknado shipped Foggy and Matt and while I'm not opposed to it on concept, the behavior on display here makes me want better for Foggy.
- Karen and Matt? Well, their relationship briefly reminded me of how much I hate the trope of "must keep a secret from my loved ones to protect them". Like, every time that's invoked, it doesn't even work: it either endangers the person anyway or it falls apart and causes great damage to both people's relationship (Hello there, The Flash) because you thought they were idiots who couldn't keep a secret. (Open to the idea that that's not what happening here, I may have glazed over it a bit.) And in Matt's case, it already fell through before with Foggy, nearly trashing their friendship. Second time's the charm, huh? And then Matt and Karen fell apart around the same time she found another woman in Matt's bed and Matt seemingly trashes the case. Oh. How...um, tragic, it seems.
It is supposed to be tragic?
- All this falling apart stuff...I heard that's supposed to be a season 2 Netflix MCU thing, right? In season 2, everything the hero tries to build falls apart and they become something much darker than they were in the previous season. I haven't watched Luke Cage or Iron Fist but the same sort of thing happens there, too, if I heard correctly?
- I am open to Karen and Foggy getting together. It seems much healthier and they can bond over how Matt sucks, like Korra and Asami over Mako!
- The scene with Grotto's funeral...well, there's not much to say, is there? Much like the priest, to Matt's distaste. It was almost comical, how little nobody, even the good Father, cared about Grotto. Matt stuck his neck out for Grotto and...well, Grotto wasn't worth it, it seems. It seemed to be on principle.
- The Punisher stuff...I remember being floored by Bernthal's performance the first time I saw it, especially the graveyard scene. At the time, I was also watching the first season of The Walking Dead and me and my brother commenting that Bernthal really does play well to the "Sociopathic Hero" type. And, I do have to say, I really did enjoy the Punisher stuff. I really squeaked and tensed myself when Frank cocked the hammer, threading to shoot the old man on the rooftop. It might be because I'm the sort of person who prefers to play Bruce Wayne rather then Batman in Batman: The Tell Tale Series but I found the legal sparring before the big fight and cross-examinations more interesting then the other plot with Elektra and Matt attacking the Yakuza.
- Then came...the ninjas. All clad in black pajamas, throwing shuriken, shooting arrows from bloody bows. Dear god, the ninjas. It's almost goddamn farcial how straight they're being played. I thought I was going to laugh when I saw those fuckwits trying to chase down a car in that get-up. That's not even a thing, much like vikings having horned helmets. The black clothes come from a tale (probably not the best word) where a ninja disguised themself as a stage hand to assassinate somebody. And it just became the Official Ninja Costume, like Hamlet reciting the wrong speech when he has the skull of Yorick.
- WHY DO YOU NOT HAVE NORMAL CLOTHES? WHY DO YOU NOT HAVE GUNS? IT'S AMERICA, YOU GET A FREE GUN WITH EVERY MCDONALDS QUARTER POUNDER MEAL AT LEAST THE YAKUZA HAD GUNS! O.K, THEY ALSO HAD NUNCHUCKS BUT AT LEAST THEY DIVERSIFIED INTO THE 20TH CENTURY! AT LEAST THEY HAD NORMAL SUITS!
- And then there's this Black Sky thing, which is dangerous because the Hand wants it even though it's never been activated before so it's not entirely clear what makes it such a threat (wasn't that a thing in season one as well), and the giant-ass hole in the ground and they're taking blood and organs from children? What? Is this a mad-lib of evil? Also, they don't have heartbeats or even breathe and can somehow move so silently that Matt's enhanced senses can't hear them? This should be scarier but Matt doesn't have a problem with fighting them anyway so...
- I think that might be part of the problem: they're used as mooks to beat down the hero, not assassins and spies. I'd even hazard to say that, so far, even though I can totally hear Handsome Rob and slim standing up right now, that Naruto's ninjas were better ninjas then these goons. At least those ninjas were based around the ninjas in old Japanese myths and folktales, hence the body splitting, transformations, and control over the five elements. And at least they did cool stuff, if you're judging by entertainment factor! Daredevil's ninjas don't do the whole "stealth and espionage ninjutsu" concept much favor.
- ...I am inspired to try my hand at a modern ninja story that actually rolls with the times, even if it's just to roll around the concept and see what I can come up with. So, there's that. Thanks, the Hand. The 80s ruined ninjas.
- Oh my god, I found him. He actually exists. The one even slightly sympathetic dude with the Hand...and he's a white guy who's being forced to help or his son will be killed. He is actually a thing. A round of applause.
- And, of course, the cherry on the top: Nobu is alive. He's got a few scars on his face, ruining his modeling career like Nappa, but he's still kicking. Matt, in shock, ejaculates "but you're dead". I never actually watched the fight with Nobu in season one so I have mostly hearsay about how it went down. But, here it is. Matt totally thought that Nobu died in his fight...which wouldn't be a problem if A. he didn't say that he didn't kill anybody before and B. if it didn't come off like the show's presenting a binary choice between "killing" and "not-killing". Sometimes, you can kill without even trying because that's how violence works.
- Episode...nine, I think, was basically the "Wilson Fisk" episode. I heard Tobias describe his crime powers as being "bribe then bribe again", which basically worked out here: he bribed the outside world to get thugs in prison then bribed the guards to help him kill Dutton and Frank. When all you've got is a hammer... Still, I think I found one of those "good fight scenes" that anmocalris20 was talking about. Because, hoo boy, that Punisher betrayal (for some reason). I'm not usually that squeamish but holy heavens above, that was just straight-up butchery. Frank's got another name if "The Punisher" doesn't work out: Mr. Stabbity. Just blood and bodies everywhere.
- ...I actually kinda like Stick. He's...just such a hardass, like, the dude must be lactose-intolerant because he seems to be allergic to the milk of human kindness.
Edited by fredhot16 on Sep 14th 2021 at 1:36:07 AM
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.Not that the rumormongers believe him, but Andrew Garfield once again maintains he's not in "No Way Home" and the leaks are fake
.
Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 14th 2021 at 1:45:45 PM
Where I stand on season 2 is that the first four episodes are perfect, but everything with Elektra and the Hand is messy and takes away from like 75% of the season. The action is higher in quantity, but lower in stakes and feels shallow in the middle, and even the Punisher overstays his welcome, and the backdoor pilot for his show doesn't actually help Season 2's quality in any way.
I'm someone who ships "Karedevil" but honestly feel that the issue with Matt and Karen is that they should have gotten together in season 1. In season 1, they shouldn't have done the little love triangle where Foggy is interested in Karen but Karen only has eyes for Matt. They should've just had Karen date Matt right away and maybe even have her learn Matt's identity at the start of season 1 as well (that way, when Foggy finds out in "Nelson v. Murdock", it's a bigger betrayal for him that Matt was willing to trust Karen, who he's only known for a few weeks, with his secret while not trusting his best friend of five years).
Delaying it to season 2 made it feel crammed in there since they were doing the Punisher origins plus the Eletkra mythos. It's not helped by the contrived drama in season 2 (honestly, I always felt that Karen acted out of character when she saw Elektra in Matt's bed. The scene makes Karen look a bit like an idiot, which she's not. She's supposed to be this really smart young woman who was able to dig up leads on Fisk, who investigates things and finds out the whole story. And while yes, she was emotional and stressed given how the trial was going, jumping straight to assuming Matt is sleeping with Elektra feels baffling considering Stick let her in. Did Karen think that Matt was sleeping with Elektra while Stick perved on them or did she think the three of them are having some kind of demented threesome together?)
Yeah, it's a thing.
Edited by dmcreif on Sep 14th 2021 at 2:46:57 PM
Okey Dokey!![]()
Oh yeah, he's clearly lying. I mean, I get it, he's not actually allowed to say anything, but really he's not fooling anybody.
I mean to be fair they got him in 4K.
On a similar note, trope page question: in the Hawkeye (2021) YMMV page are the examples explicitly about Vincent D'Onofrio reprising Kingpin valid? My gut reaction would be they wouldn't since there's been nothing to actually corroborate on them beyond leakers/insiders like Charles Murphy all uniting on it.
Edited by Watchtower on Sep 14th 2021 at 3:52:53 PM
That Epileptic Trees entry is quite bad and should go. “Celebrity likes tweets” “these two shots have similar lighting” and more of the Cox rumors… c’mon guys.
I scrubbed Garfield’s page of NWH references just now. Even if all the rumors are we still shouldn’t trope Content Leak.
What if he is in the film but he plays Holland’s Spider-Man in an in-universe work about him. Imagine the chaos.
Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 14th 2021 at 3:19:29 AM
Putting aside the mangling of my username, eeyup.
It even works set to Mr. Blue Sky.
Stick is unironically my favorite character from the Netflix shows. I'd honestly have taken a prequel series just focused on slightly-less-old-but-still-unreasonably-old Stick touring the world and kicking ass.
Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Sep 14th 2021 at 4:29:09 AM
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!- That Epileptic Trees entry is quite bad and should go. “Celebrity likes tweets” “these two shots have similar lighting” and more of the Cox rumors… c’mon guys.I scrubbed Garfield’s page of NWH references just now. Even if all the rumors are we still shouldn’t trope Content Leak.
Let's remember:
- Rumors said Mephisto would show up in WandaVision and in Loki. Never happened.
- Rumors said Adam Warlock would be the one to help defeat Thanos. Never happened.
- Rumors also said that Evan Peters’ Pietro showing up in WandaVision meant that he was from a different multiverse/reality, and that the X-Men would be introduced. He was just an ordinary Westviewer named Ralph Bohner.
Most “rumors” that spread about MCU project are not rumors. They’re more fan theories that 99.9% of the time won’t come true. Everyone that works on these films and TV shows work very hard at keeping the plot lines a complete secret. They give some of the actors fake scripts, and have them film fake scenes with fake dialogue that will never even show up in the movies. The actors themselves barely even know what’s really going to happen and what’s not. Only a select few actors that are trustworthy get the real scripts. Marvel even goes as far as including scenes in their trailers that they never even show in the movies at all.
No one knows what will happen until the films are released and we can watch them with our own eyes.
Okey Dokey!Bit of a drive-by opinion, feel free to ignore. @fredhot, since you asked elsewhere:
As much as I do still remember JJ and DD fondly for their first seasons, as much as I thought Iron Fist redeemed itself, particularly with its final And the Adventure Continues hooks, ultimately Luke Cage is series that I personally wanted to keep going the most. But anyway.
Daredevil Season 2 starts so strong, but just goes so far off the rails by the end. Would've been a much better season if it was literally just the first four episodes, without trying to somehow weave that into what came next. It could've benefited from another time skip, or just being left as a mini-season. Frank's escape probably could've been left to his own series, honestly, and it would've been better for Matt as a character if he didn't come to terms with the kind of vigilante the Punisher is, if he doubled-down and fully committed to his No Kill Code.
And yeah, I think you're supposed to want better for Foggy, a more conventional good person, kind and decent, better than just a sidekick. He can't do that with Matt around, and I do kind of like that the show acknowledges that. Their breakup, and friends do break up, felt pretty earnest. Matt is kind of selfish. It's easy to miss that because of how broken he is, how much he seems to need or even want help — but he'll never accept it.
You can't save everyone. So in some ways I remember feeling like they got that beat right. They just needed to give Foggy more screentime.
Daredevil kind of came out right at the tail end of people's tolerance for overly gritty antiheroes, post-Breaking Bad. I liked the show a lot when it first came out, but eventually, like a lot of serialized shows (like Flash, like Dexter), there was just too much setup, not of enough payoff for what had already been set up. That means paying off the shitty things the hero has done, giving them their comeuppance, too. I said once that I would've loved if Season 3 began post-Defenders with Matt in a fugue state, a la Daredevil Rise, letting the show focus on Karen and Foggy picking up the pieces of their lives and Matt's — only to find him again partway through the season, forcing him into something like an intervention.
There's always going to be a certain amount of Matt's character that still does feel very honest and relatable to me, but it's also... self-indulgent, in a way. I watched enough Bojack Horseman to agree — we do glamourize these characters too much. The show was at its best when Matt has to face the consequences of his double life, when he did seem like he was getting better. But pretty right after the fourth episode of Season 2, the show seemed to lose sight of that.
The Hand just sucked. I liked how down-to-earth Madame Gao and Nobu's first appearances are. There's just none of that left by the end of Season 2. The only thing more played out than a ninja army is a zombie horde, and you had the worst of both worlds, there. The Defenders puts a dent in my enjoyment of Madame Gao by making her just another member of the Hand, while it misses the obvious worldbuilding hook of Nobu being one of the Five Fingers (or whatever they were called), giving the Hand further incentive to hate Matt, as well as letting Nobu have at least *something* interesting about his character, even posthumously. Could've had him show up in a flashback, maybe.
That's about all I've got for now. Some of it may be misremembered, it's a long past couple of years. I'll always miss the Netflix days on some level, but I really do like Wanda Vision and Loki, so... kind over it? As much as I can be, based on the wall of text above.
Edited by Unsung on Sep 14th 2021 at 4:46:30 AM

Oh, no, not the Clone Saga.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!