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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I just try not to think about Iron Man 3 in general, to be honest.
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonThis conversation about Clint's body count entertains me because I remember having arguments like this about the comics.
It happens with every Avenger. There's this idea that floats around fandom spaces that all superheroes refuse to kill. That killing, for any reason, is just this absolute ultimate evil that no superhero would ever commit and all superheroes, Marvel and DC alike, are in agreement with that.
That's not really a thing at Marvel. Except when it is. Most Marvel supers subscribe to the doctrine of reasonable force. They'll use as much force as is necessary to get the job done. No more, no less. This often winds up being nonlethal, at least for the recognizable villains; sometimes mooks get lobbed into the sun or their helicopter is blown up or whatever and no one's really concerned about their fate beyond that. But it's not, like, a dedicated effort to be nonlethal.
Iron Man has not sworn an oath against nonkilling. Neither has Captain America. Or Hawkeye. Or Black Widow. Or Thor. Or the Hulk. Etc. etc. A lot of writers often won't explicitly depict them taking a life, but they don't make a fuss about it. It just happens that the Red Skull lived through the beating Captain America gave him and was taken into custody alive. Even then, sometimes they do explicitly kill, such as when Iron Man and a team of Avengers stone-cold executed the Kree Supreme Intelligence in the wake of Galactic Storm.
But some people insist that Avengers have all sworn oaths against killing because that's what superheroes do. Superheroes never kill, ever. And sometimes those people become Marvel Comics writers. This can create some wild fucking dissonance. In one comic, you see Hawkeye shooting clearly pointed arrows at Hand ninjas, and then in another comic released the same week, Hawkeye is explaining that being an Avenger means revering all life and never killing anyone, no matter what.
So. Yeah. Most Marvel supers don't really have a passionate opinion on the topic of killing, except when they're written by writers that do. Spider-Man is basically the one guy at Marvel who has an absolute stance of "Killing bad, always, no exceptions."
Of course, some characters create more dissonance than others when their turn comes up to have a "Superheroes don't kill, right?" writer. Hawkeye's a funny one because, like Wolverine, his main method of conflict resolution is to plunge bladed implements into an adversary's flesh. Like half of his trick arrows exist simply to resolve the inherent contradiction created by an archer trying to be nonlethal. And the other half exist to help him kill more effectively.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.we all know Hulk never killed anyone during his rampages,right?
have a listen and have a link to my discord serverEndgame condemns Clint's actions as worse than "reasonable force", though. He was willing to yeet himself off the cliff as atonement because he knew he was in the wrong.
Forgiving the character is fine, it's a YMMV sitch similar to "did Wanda get off too easy for Westview?". But pretending it was a reasonable trauma response is uhh...
For a change of topic, did anyone know Marvel tried to make a Cap musical happen in the '80s
?
Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 13th 2021 at 4:37:59 AM
And it kinda becomes harder for people to root for the Hulk and see him as a hero.
Thought the flip flop on whether or not he's killed people has lead to World War Hulk's premise getting silly at one point since the Hulk rampaging through Vegas killed several people which was changed to injuring people with no casualties.
Which made the whole Reed and other science heroes sending him into space a bit of a overreaction.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"He would have to have the hyper awareness of a god AND somehow be psychic to account for people possibly darting in a different direction when running from chaos.
All while controlling the literal personification of his Id.
The no killing thing used to be editorial policy under Shooter
And in fairness, half of the Avengers killing the supreme intelligence caused a rift in the Avengers.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersYeah IIRC the Avengers at one point used to have a no-killing policy, back when they were a private membership club bunking in one of Stark's mansions like a clubhouse. It was only really in the 2000s that this default "superheroes never kill" assumption was eroded away.
Nowadays only a couple Marvel heroes have explicit ones due to personal hang-ups (off the top of my head Spidey and Daredevil) and others are more implied by the fact that they'd never use lethal force anyway (basically any Kid Hero).
Rogers: The Musical is the Cats of the MCU version of Broadway in that it’s popular due to being around for ages
No, I agree it's more analogous to Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark, in that it's a new splashy arthouse thing that makes people go "why?".
The fact it's just called "Rogers" made me think it's more of a reference to Hamilton.
Going back a page, Clint's conversation with Laura was really brief in the trailer. But it did sound more like a husband/wife conversation, opposed to an ex-wife conversation. My guess is Linda Cardellini either wasn't available, or the level of COVID health guidelines made it too much of a hassle for what would probably be a glorified cameo.
Edited by Hawkeye86 on Sep 13th 2021 at 9:02:01 AM
You and I remember Budapest very differentlyOh, Rogers is definitely a light Hamilton parody, right down to the set design, just that the superheroics might be more analogous to Spider-Man Broadway. I would be willing to bet Lin-Manuel Miranda has already rewritten a Hamilton song to fit it and it'll be this show's "Agatha All Along".
That actually sounds like something Walker would do.
And he'd be 100% sincere about wanting to apologize, but being who he is and all, it'd still come off as him being an asshole...cause he kinda is an asshole most of the time.
One Strip! One Strip!

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It's more of a trivia fact than anything else.
You and I remember Budapest very differently