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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#133476: Sep 12th 2021 at 6:12:12 AM

If the argument is, "You recognize the villain, therefore you know the comic," then the Eternals are much bigger than the New Gods. Darkseid has made multiple appearances in various cartoons, but Thanos was the Big Bad for the highest-grossing film in cinematic history. Everyone knows Thanos now. Absolutely everyone.

But it's still a bad argument nonetheless. The nature of Marvel and DC being shared universes means that you don't need to know the comic to recognize their most famous villains. You can recognize them from the many other characters' stories that they've appeared in. You can go, "Oh, that's Doom and that's Galactus," without ever having picked up a Fantastic Four comic in your life or having any clue who Reed Richards is. Doom is also an Iron Man villain, a Dr. Strange villain, and sometimes an Avengers villain. Galactus fights Thor.

"Do you recognize this villain who appears in everything?" is a poor litmus test for how well-known a particular comic is. In fact, most people who recognize Darkseid think he's a Superman villain for that very reason.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 12th 2021 at 6:14:29 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#133477: Sep 12th 2021 at 6:15:11 AM

I really don't get what you're arguing against and it feels like you're completely missing the point

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133478: Sep 12th 2021 at 6:18:42 AM

Okay fine here's a better example.

Lets see the media appearances for the Eternals.

Motion Comic

A Marvel Knights Animation motion comic DVD was released on September 16, 2014.

Thats it. A single motion comic released during the second season of the Marvel Knights Animation motion comic thing. None of the Eternals have even made an appearance in the Lego Marvel game.

By contrast characters from the New Gods property have made appearances in the various television shows as well a couple video games.

Even Shang showed up in a couple mobile games before his movie came out. The Eternals have yet to show up in any of those.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 12th 2021 at 6:19:44 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#133479: Sep 12th 2021 at 6:19:04 AM

[up][up] The point, asserted on the last page, was that the New Gods are more well-known than the Eternals among casual audiences that aren't dedicated comic book nerds.

And. Well. No. They're not. Darkseid is pretty well known. Thanos is a household name. But this does not extend to knowing anything about the New Gods or Eternals.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 12th 2021 at 6:19:27 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#133480: Sep 12th 2021 at 6:23:28 AM

OK,so you're not really providing a compelling counter argument thats not leaving me shaking my head

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133481: Sep 12th 2021 at 6:28:53 AM

I mean its a relative thing.

Any person watching Young Justice has the potential to gain some measure of awareness over characters like the Forever People, Orion, Forager, and some general lore and tech surrounding the New Gods like the Bug Species plus the Mother Boxes of course.

While there's not really a potential for people to gain awareness over guys like Ajak and Ikaris due to there being absolutely no media appearances for them in any form until until the movie comes out.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 12th 2021 at 6:29:39 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
IronScope STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS. from Somewhere Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS.
#133482: Sep 12th 2021 at 7:18:04 AM

The New Gods are twenty times better known amongst the general audience blind to comics deeplore than the Eternals.

20 X 0 is still 0.

This place is careless.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133483: Sep 12th 2021 at 7:19:55 AM

Both are pretty C-list but I also think the New Gods have more exposure among the comic book-adjacent “watches comic adaptation but doesn’t read them” crowd. I think YJ might have been the first thingn to touch the Forever People (certainly how I learned about them) but Mister Miracle also gets screentime elsewhere.

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 12th 2021 at 9:25:27 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133484: Sep 12th 2021 at 7:22:00 AM

Like I said its a relative thing.

The New Gods have actually appeared in stuff previously while for Eternals this is their first time majorly appearing in anything ever.

[up] Miracle did also get an acclaimed maxi-series in 2017 by Tom King. All the big acclaim and stuff there.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 12th 2021 at 7:24:26 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#133485: Sep 12th 2021 at 8:34:05 AM

Tom King was always better with less mainstream characters. His runs on Vision show that.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#133486: Sep 12th 2021 at 11:16:06 AM

The Eternals are extremely D/Z-list characters with almost no major appearances in Marvel media or successful comic runs. Hevk, even Moon Knight was more recognizable than the Eternals thanks to video game and animated appearances. They're going to get a Colbert Bump with the new movie with changes made to certain characters to the point of being In Name Only from their comic book counterparts.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Sep 12th 2021 at 11:19:08 AM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133488: Sep 12th 2021 at 7:38:17 PM

Oh shit man.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#133489: Sep 12th 2021 at 8:12:13 PM

Hawkeye will definitely be a change in pace from the most recent Disney+ shows. Multiverse madness to a couple of people with bows and arrows.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133490: Sep 12th 2021 at 8:21:06 PM

Unless we engage in a multiversal quest to find the God Arrow. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133491: Sep 12th 2021 at 8:28:55 PM

Arrow eventually got into multiversal madness, it just took a few years. Anything is possible!

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133492: Sep 12th 2021 at 8:34:47 PM

I'm surprised they never did any from the Jeff Lemire run which centered around these 7 weapons clans each with a mystical weapon totem.

With the green arrow being a near Godlike instrument that can grant anyone who wields it enlightenment and knowledge of everything.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#133493: Sep 12th 2021 at 8:41:52 PM

Had Hawkeye died in Endgame, the show would have been quite different with Kate Bishop as the only Hawkeye and being possibly trained by Natasha Romanoff. There would also be no Yelena Belova revenge quest as well.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#133494: Sep 12th 2021 at 8:55:50 PM

I doubt we would be getting a Hawkeye show at all if he had died. Before all the dramatic addendums Kate's origin was initially just "rich girl decides to be superhero for kicks". Not the hardest thing to introduce into a Young Avengers ensemble piece.

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 12th 2021 at 10:58:54 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133495: Sep 12th 2021 at 9:05:31 PM

Plus a big facet of Kate is her relationship with Clint especially since her tenure in the Fraction run of Hawkeye as his partner is what helped further elevate her status.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#133496: Sep 12th 2021 at 9:18:05 PM

Well, that could be done but like I said Kate's trainer would be Black Widow since she was close to Clint and might eventually encounter her at some point. Alternatively, they could overhaul Kate's origin to be a niece of Hawkeye who escaped her abusive father Barney and lived with her uncle until his death.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Sep 12th 2021 at 9:20:45 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#133497: Sep 12th 2021 at 9:38:10 PM

Funny thing is that if Clint were dead when Kate started Hawkeyeing it would be truer to the text.

Guy was dead in a really dumb way in Disassembled by the time the Young Avengers popped up.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#133498: Sep 12th 2021 at 11:14:06 PM

Hawkeye trailer dropping tomorrow.

Fingers crossed for the Circus of Crime, even though I know it's not happening.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#133500: Sep 13th 2021 at 4:32:35 AM

Long story short, Wanda killed him.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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