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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
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Which means a "person" is a concept, not a specific physical object. Or, perhaps, it would be easier to think of a person as a 4D object, viewed as 3D "slices".
Whether or not you consider 2014 Gamora, Variant Loki, or even 2014 Thanos to be the same "person" as their other selves is entirely dependent on where you personally draw the line, but it strikes me as premature to draw the line as starkly as "once you die, that's absolute and any other self is a different person" in a setting where death is made loose and vague by time travel, mind uploading, trapping yourself and Dormammu in a time loop, or any other such fantastic technology.
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We'd both be me. We could choose to co-exist and diverge into two separate people, agree to kill one of ourselves so the other can live normally, find some sort of technology that allows us to consolidate our memories back into one brain, act like Creepy Twins, discuss the Ship of Theseus in an abandoned library, or any other number of things.
Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Sep 11th 2021 at 12:54:43 PM
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Right. He dies over and over again, but he retains continuity of consciousness through each successive reset. He's the same person despite his time shenanigans because he has a continuous existence; he is, in the end, aware first-hand of each instance he's lived through. He moved from one version to the next, turning back time but maintaining self.
On the other hand, Series Loki learned how to enchant people from Sylvie. Therefore, should Ragnarok Loki be able to enchant people?
The answer is no. Not because Ragnarok Loki doesn't have the memory of it, but because he never lived it in the first place. Ragnarok Loki and Series Loki are different characters. There is no continuity of self from Ragnarok Loki to Series Loki or vice versa; they share all of the same experience up to the point that they split from, but from there, they have different existences as different selves. Ragnarok Loki did not pass out from being choked by Thanos, then wake up the next morning as Series Loki.
Gamora II, by the same vein, is a new Gamora. She shares experiences with our Gamora to a point, but our Gamora remains dead. There is no continuity of self from one Gamora to the other; they're different people.
Gamora II is a Replacement Goldfish; Gamora did not wake up the next morning in Gamora II's body or something. Gamora died and that was the last thing she knew, forever. The existence of a temporal clone does not change that.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 11th 2021 at 10:24:58 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.It’s a very comic book way to bring a character back to life without invalidating their death
The Jean that returned was the Real Jean but it’s similar to Jean’s return after Dark Phoenix where Jean had no memory of what Phoenix Jean did
Until Jean absorbed the Phoenix’s memories and Madelyne Pryor’s too for that matter
Now that’s how you cheat it
Forever liveblogging the AvengersTbh, it's not entirely clear why they felt they had to "cheat" it in the first place. The MCU is reaching the point where they want to commit to the idea of not doing resurrections, but since they don't actually want to kill off these marketable characters, they're resorting to "technically still dead" and such odd plot decisions instead.
But yes, New Gamora is a Replacement Goldfish for the original Gamora. Gamora is still dead, and this Gamora is quite literally a Gamora with none of the character and personality that defined the one we know (being a version of Gamora from before she even decided to switch sides, which happened before we first see her), and so is essentially a new character with Gamora's skin.
While it's possible to get technical about whether or not she's literally dead and so on, but a lot of that is moot because at the end of the day this is a narrative issue and not a metaphysical or philosophical one. It's bluntly a "this character is lost forever, but here's a shiny new version of the character instead" writing move.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 11th 2021 at 11:11:35 AM
Honestly, Peter Quill should have been the Guardian who survives the Snap and has to face the consequences of his decisions. Give him some much needed Character Development.
Infinity War makes a lot of baffling choices when it comes to the Guardians of the Galaxy.
Edited by Nightwire on Sep 12th 2021 at 12:31:55 PM
I'll confess that I really don't like infinity war. It's interesting as an experiment, to have all these characters turn up, but that initial thrill doesn't really hold on rewatches where the narrative is just constantly pinging between characters with no rhyme or reason and everyone is receiving way more trauma than the film has any time to properly examine.
Back in 2012 when Whendon said the infinity gems saga would be the third film I assumed the plot would be the Avengers, as a team, visiting various settings in the MCU to gather the gems. The Avengers go to Asgard, the Avengers go to 1940s America, and when additional films came out, the Avengers go to Knowhere, the avengers go to Khama Taj, the Avengers go to Wakanda.
But Infinity War didn't really end up being a Avengers film, it was an everyone film.
All this talk about whether the current Gamora is the same person as the Gamora who died is precisely why I don't like Time Travel in a lot of stories.
Disgusted, but not surprisedWhoa I just finished reading the newest issue of Defenders and remembered, we can bring in Galactus and Silver Surfer now.
Man thats gonna be so rad. We gonna go fucking cosmic, its the next level. From ground stuff like international espionage and secret agents, to sci-fi stuff with aliens and blasters, to finally the fucking cosmic Godlike wonders of the universe with a chrome being with the power of a deity surfing the cosmos on his board.
Though now that I realize it Eternals is our continuing foray into the cosmic with its cast of Godlike space aliens. Its gonna be trippy.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."I mean. I don't know who the New Gods are either.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Oh, I've heard of Darkseid. And Thanos. But that doesn't extend to knowing anything about the New Gods or Eternals. These characters have far outshone their races.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 12th 2021 at 5:47:29 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Honestly, people don't care about New Genesis, they only care about Apokolips. As far as the wider audience is concerned, the New Gods begin and end with Darkseid. He's the only one who really matters because he's a Justice League/Superman villain.
And Thanos doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Eternals in the MCU.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 12th 2021 at 5:49:12 AM
The point is proven regardless that more people know about New Gods than the Eternals and even then New Gods characters other than Apokolips ones do make appearances in stuff.
Mister Miracle in Justice League Action which aired 5 years ago.
As well as the Forever People and Orion in Young Justice which is still going. As well as Forager who is a main character in season 3 and he's a secondary New Gods character.
Edited by slimcoder on Sep 12th 2021 at 5:56:41 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

One can said it will become diferent chararter once it experience something diferent, sure loki is still loki at first but he did things not other loki have done before so ergo he isnt loki of endgame, the same will happen to gamora.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"