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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
On the subject of Shang Chi and Mulan, while comparing it to the 2020 version is obviously ludicrous, I'd argue it actually reminds me of the 1999 version of Mulan. That film was not very popular in the mainland (since to them it was just another drop in the sea of numerous Mulan adaptations they already had), but was a significant event for diasporic Asian Americans like myself who have very different interests in media.
The movie is set in San Francisco, which is a major hub of Asian American immigration and settlement and its cast consists heavily of actors who are popular in the West or Chinese diaspora (Tony Leung is from Hong Kong, which we all know is going through some ch-ch-ch-changes right now, and Michelle Yeoh is from Malaysia and featured prominently in Western works in the past, including projects led by creators who the CCP frowns upon).
That's very different from Mulan 2020, which was staffed primarily by white creatives who did not do the proper research and were attempting to pander to mainland sensibilities by making a poor imitation of historically successful native Chinese genre fiction, and it visibly showed. Shang Chi on the other hand is created by Asian Americans, for us and about us, but mostly treating us as people instead of necessarily just aping trends mainland China likes (which according to my mainland pals would be Steve/Bucky shipping, apparently
).
Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 10th 2021 at 2:01:06 PM
I think that comparison is very on-point. I remember reading articles about how Mulan's characterization in the cartoon movie reflects Asian American feelings of inadequacy compared to the Mainland, which is not the case in the live action remark, in which Mulan is the Paragon of Chinese Femininity (TM). And Shang Chi definitely has that same kind of "underdog energy".
Also, per Synchronicity's post on the last page, while Awkwafina is kind of an "it girl" generally, since she was an Ensemble Dark Horse in Crazy Rich Asians and had a staring role in The Farewell, I don't think it's at all a stretch that by casting her, Marvel was trying to appeal to the audience for those movies (with the understanding that they were chasing less of a Mainland China audience).
Also, tangentially I'm thinking of this tweet from Awkwafina's tv show
, especially because Awkwafina's character in Raya is definitely a Spiritual Successor.
Edited by Hodor2 on Sep 10th 2021 at 11:25:04 AM
In hindsight, if Marvel really wanted to go full-steam ahead at mainland pandering they did a questionable job at it. Picking a Japanese-American for a director for example is already a terrible idea to appeal to the mainland CCP if you really want to. Mind you I still question the wisdom of doing that for entirely different reasons (a film so specifically about chinese culture directed by a japanese-american man?)
Edited by Gaon on Sep 10th 2021 at 10:54:51 AM
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Haven't watched it yet, but my guess is that this film is less about the Chinese American experience specifically and more about the Asian American diaspora as a whole that happens to focus on Chinese characters.
Of course, Chinese Americans, Japanese Americans, Korean Americans, Vietnamese Americans, Filipino Americans, and so on will all have somewhat unique specificities of experience from each other due to the differences between their native cultures, but there's no doubt some degree of flattening has occurred among us as a result of white European dominance. For example I probably do have a lot more in common with a Japanese American than I would with a mainlander who spent their entire life in China.
Fair point.
Anyhow, by all accounts it seems to have worked according to the chinese-american opinions I saw, but the initial choice does still befuddle me to some level (there's no shortage of chinese-american directors after all).
"All you Fascists bound to lose."On an unrelated note, do you think we’ll move on from high-school Spidey after No Way Home?
Especially because the NWH trailer puts the least emphasis on the high-school setting compared to the prior movies so I wonder if we’re gonna move on from this afterwards.
Ya know assuming we get more Spidey MCU movies.
Edited by slimcoder on Sep 10th 2021 at 11:43:18 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."I think Feige mentioned once that he wanted to do a high school trilogy and then move onto a young adult Spidey, so Sony willing that might be what comes next.
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonRE: "Shang-Chi was made for China": Uhhh, no offense, but that doesn't sound right? Maybe Feige just wanted to produce a martial arts movie and raise awareness of obscure Marvel characters? I mean, before he got his movie, Shang-Chi was like, what, B-List or C-List?
RE: MCU Spider-Man young adult trilogy uncertainty: I loathe that we're back to casting doubt that Marvel and Sony might not team up again for more Spider-Man...
RE: MCU release dates for 2024: Anyone want to bet that one of those dates will be for Deadpool 3?
Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 11th 2021 at 10:31:37 AM
> On an unrelated note, do you think we’ll move on from high-school Spidey after No Way Home?
I feel like Peter will go from being a student in high school to working in a high school,it comes with the reluctance to let Peter Parker grow up,keep the setting (high school) but occasionally change the premise (replace Uncle Ben,no Mary Jane ecta)
have a listen and have a link to my discord server![]()
If Eternals is China-pandering due to the director and one cast member, it's also North-pandering due to having two of the Starks in it's cast
Edited by jdeo1997 on Sep 11th 2021 at 8:11:10 AM
Attachments are not the problem, Indifference is. Keelah se'laiApparently Shang Chi was planned all the way back during the first bunch of MCU movies but didn’t manage to happen until now
Forever liveblogging the AvengersHe was originally "inspired by" the Bruce Lee style martial arts films of the 70s and has hung around ever since. He's never quite made it to the mainstream before but has had a couple of solos and some team stuff including stints with the Agents of Atlas and Heroes for Hire.
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."Stan Lee apparently had a (somewhat unexpected given he didn't create him) fondness for the character and tried to get a film off the ground with Brandon Lee (son of Bruce Lee) during the 80's. So, it's been a long road.
Edited by Gaon on Sep 11th 2021 at 9:34:00 AM
"All you Fascists bound to lose."This "pandering to China" conversation surrounding Shang-Chi is weird to me because I was there for the Iron Fist discourse. Iron Fist was a very contentious character on account of being Mighty Whitey played unapologetically straight. There was a movement to race-lift him with an Asian actor in order to downplay the racially problematic nature of the character.
I remember, at the time, thinking that they could just not make an Iron Fist show. If we want an actual Asian person to be Marvel's premiere kung fu character, Shang-Chi: The Master of Kung Fu is right there. Marvel should just make a Shang-Chi show instead.
The counterargument I kept hearing at the time was that Marvel can never make a Shang-Chi film or TV show, or even have him appear as a supporting character because of his connection to Fu Manchu. Shang-Chi, as a character, is legally off the table, forever. So they have to make Iron Fist work somehow.
Now, years later in the wake of Shang-Chi's first movie, the MCU has their first non-Netflix kung fu superhero and they did it exactly the way I said they should. And people are mad that having a Canadian actor of Chinese descent play him is pandering to the Chinese government. Somehow.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Eh. People will always find something to be mad about.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to shake my fist at some clouds. They are floating wrong.
....and that...is unacceptable.
One Strip! One Strip!People don't want their comfy black and white world views challenged.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Before anyone asks, yes I know that the Shang-Chi movie has been in Development Hell for quite a while since the 1980s no less with Brandon Lee even being attached to star at one point until his untimely death in 1993. Yuen Woo-Ping was going to direct the film with Ang Lee producing but this fell by the wayside and as others pointed out it was going to be part of Phase 1 but that didn't happen. He almost could have been part of Phase 2 or 3 had The Avengers (2012) inserted a post-credits scene with Shang-Chi instead of incorporating him with the Mandarin, which caused DMG to chicken out and leave the film.
Edited by Chrononaut70 on Sep 11th 2021 at 11:37:42 AM
Tbh, the just-before-release wave of “no one is going to be interested in this movie” buzz Shang-Chi got just struck me as the exact kind of thing all minority led major films tend to get. Along with the typical “this is being made for the wrong reasons” buzz. And I’m glad the movie is overcoming it.

Even the comparison to Mulan is both in really bad taste and is honestly kinda sus. Like, we're really going to treat Shang-Chi, Eternals, and Mulan in the same ballpark because of the Chinese actors up front? The Chinese pandering in Mulan is screamingly obvious from the trailers alone and the fact that there were little to no Asian-Americans involved only makes it more telling.