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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#133226: Sep 7th 2021 at 2:31:13 PM

[up][up][up] I mean that might be true for a few minor things, but overall the situation does stay the same.

And sometimes, it just takes a lot longer for things to be reverted.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133227: Sep 7th 2021 at 2:33:36 PM

It’s not like the US has figured out a way to solve the war on drugs or……. Any war in the Middle East despite the massive amounts of firepower they put in.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#133228: Sep 7th 2021 at 2:36:01 PM

That America-centrism also explains why Johannesburg wasn't in Ross's slideshow when he presented the Accords to the Avengers.

Johannesburg wasn't in the slideshow for the same reason that nobody mentions Tony building Ultron. The writers want to keep the argument centered around collateral damage, because it's an argument that the Avengers can win. This is critical for the film, because the anti-Accords team is supposed to be right.

It's supposed to be debatable, but for Captain America to ultimately come out on top of that debate. Nearly everyone on Team Tony defects to Team Steve over the course of the film. The few that don't go on to quit Team Tony in the next film that the same writer/director team made. Including Tony! Like, the Pro-Accords side loses by default because nobody, not even Tony himself, actually ends up supporting it for more than five minutes.

You're not necessarily supposed to kneejerk react into thinking Steve's right. But you are supposed to be on his side by the time all is said and done. It's a complicated question, but one that's designed to be answered. And the answer is supposed to be, "The Accords are wrong."

But that means we can't talk about Johannesburg, and we can't talk about Tony building Ultron. Because if we talk about those things, then the Avengers employing Wanda and Tony with reckless abandon becomes unconscionable. It becomes harder for them to win this conversation if their members are out there committing actual crimes and having those crimes swept under the rug because "They're Avengers, fuck you."

The filmmakers want fans to associate the Avengers with well-meaning cops being strangled by red tape and needing to go outside the law to do their jobs. They do not want fans to associate the Avengers with cops shooting black kids and then being shielded by police unions.

Collateral damage is something that might initially sound like the jackass has a point (especially with the bomb vest mess-up in the opening) but then, the more you actually think about it, the more clear it becomes that he's just a fucking jackass. And that's precisely where the film wants the conversation to go.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 7th 2021 at 2:41:37 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#133229: Sep 7th 2021 at 2:41:18 PM

Arguments about Captain America: Civil War and Wanda's bizarre slack from siccin' the Hulk upon Johannesburg. It seems my time machine has successfully worked. Unfortunately, it took this thread to 2016 rather then 2017.

Sorry, couldn't resist the ribbing. I don't intend to be disrespectful, just making a joke. Go on, I'll try to get to my summary of the last three episodes of ''Daredevil'' I watched later.

Edited by fredhot16 on Sep 7th 2021 at 2:42:10 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#133230: Sep 7th 2021 at 2:48:13 PM

I would’ve liked to learn how the Accords intends to deal with collateral damage. There’s discussion in the films about what situations the Avengers would allowed to be deployed in and who they report to, but little in regards to what is done in cases where damage overflows. We know there’s a Department of Damage Control in America but don’t hear if the superheroes are penalized in any way.

Wanda accidentally blowing up an embassy bears some relation to real events surrounding embassy bombings testified to be accidental, and in that case there were investigations of responsibility, dismissals of staff, and financial restitution, so one wonders if it would’ve gone the same for the Avengers under the Accords.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 7th 2021 at 2:49:25 AM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#133231: Sep 7th 2021 at 2:50:57 PM

It's supposed to be debatable, but for Captain America to ultimately come out on top of that debate. Nearly everyone on Team Tony defects to Team Steve over the course of the film. The few that don't go on to quit Team Tony in the next film that the same writer/director team made. Including Tony! Like, the Pro-Accords side loses by default because nobody, not even Tony himself, actually ends up supporting it for more than five minutes.

In order, Natasha was clearly always going to take the stance Steve took but pretend to be on the other side to get a feel of the whole situation.

Peter was in the dark given the dubious means Tony used to get him to the airport fight.

T'Challa was only on their side for the sake of going after Bucky and changed his tune the second he realized he let revenge cloud his judgement.

Vision decided his love for Wanda mattered more and aided Cap remotely in breaking the incarcerated Avengers out.

Tony was quick to break them on his trip to Siberia.

Rhodey went rogue at the start of Infinity War.

I would’ve liked to learn how the Accords intends to deal with collateral damage. There’s discussion in the films about what situations the Avengers would allowed to be deployed in and who they report to, but little in regards to what is done in cases where damage overflows. We know there’s a Department of Damage Control in America but don’t hear if the superheroes are penalized in any way.

Damage Control was about the salvage operations.

Wanda accidentally blowing up an embassy bears some relation to real events surrounding embassy bombings testified to be accidental, and in that case there were investigations of responsibility, dismissals of staff, and financial restitution, so one wonders if it would’ve gone the same for the Avengers under the Accords.

The question comes as to how impartial and unbiased would the investigators of said matter be, given the agendas going on in the UN.

Edited by dmcreif on Sep 7th 2021 at 5:52:23 AM

Okey Dokey!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#133232: Sep 7th 2021 at 2:56:44 PM

Tony was quick to break them on his trip to Siberia.

He also helped Steve break everyone out of the Raft, though it was specifically help by omission. Putting Ross on hold during the call to intervene in the Raft breakout was an act of unambiguous defection. As prison guard, his shoe just happened to be untied at the convenient moment that Steve was slipping prisoners out the back. There just happened to be something very interesting down the other hall, opposite where it was all going down.

It's not direct aid, but it does make him complicit.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 7th 2021 at 2:59:03 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#133233: Sep 7th 2021 at 2:58:49 PM

Vision decided his love for Wanda mattered more and aided Cap remotely in breaking the incarcerated Avengers out.

Wait. What?

One Strip! One Strip!
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#133234: Sep 7th 2021 at 3:05:52 PM

Well, it's more this Reddit theory, based on the expression Vision has on his face when he looks at the chessboard, and the fact that he could remotely hack into communications (similar to how he burned Ultron out of the Internet).

Edited by dmcreif on Sep 7th 2021 at 6:07:31 AM

Okey Dokey!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#133235: Sep 7th 2021 at 3:07:35 PM

Well, that certainly doesn't sound like canon. I don't hear the unmistakable giant boom.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 7th 2021 at 3:07:55 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#133236: Sep 7th 2021 at 5:34:07 PM

Something small and kind of funny but somebody figured out that Lil Nas X technically survived the Snap in the MCU (I think it's to do with a scene in Shang-Chi that uses one of his songs).

The man himself seems to be surprised by this.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#133237: Sep 7th 2021 at 5:42:27 PM

I love wondering to myself which random celebrity cameos were Blipped or not; like Elon Musk in Iron Man 2 or Asgardian Matt Damon in Ragnarok.

Edited by lbssb on Sep 7th 2021 at 5:42:40 AM

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#133238: Sep 7th 2021 at 6:14:10 PM

I'm sorry, can you be restrained by handcuffs and killed by bullets?

Sure, but we're not talking about situations in which the problem can be solved by a pair of handcuffs. We're talking a problems where simple arrests don't undo the problem, which is where the analogy keys in.

A person who has the potential to create a movement - or who has done so - that the government cannot control is not dissimilar. After all, arresting such people turns them into martyrs and galvanizes the movement, taking slow legal action against them is damaging to the government's own reputation, etc, and - again - the logic towards dealing with them ended up being exactly the same logic that you're positing for the MCU: that if the government cannot get rid of this individual through legal means or by respecting their rights, then the government should feel free to remove those rights in order to get what it wants.

Again, this isn't a hypothetical. That same line of reasoning resulted in real life people getting executed or imprisoned unfairly in reality, so I can't really get behind it being applied even in a fictional sense.

The short of it is: the government should not be in the business of denying rights because it's more convenient for them than upholding them, and we definitely shouldn't be seeing our fictional "heroes" or the stories they exist within endorsing such behavior.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 7th 2021 at 6:15:24 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#133239: Sep 7th 2021 at 6:19:31 PM

Huh do we have confirmation on whether the 3 wombats got snapped?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#133240: Sep 7th 2021 at 6:29:53 PM

Luis's van was in the impound over the Blip, so he probably wasn't around to collect it.

... Man, he's not gonna be happy to find out what happened to it.

On the plus side, though, he'll probably be super stoked that the Avengers turned it into a time machine before then though.

[down][down]That's what I'm guessing from this information, yes.

Edited by lbssb on Sep 7th 2021 at 8:40:02 AM

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#133241: Sep 7th 2021 at 7:41:45 PM

[up][up][up] Key difference is that inspiring a movement isn't a crime. The government may not like the movement they're inspiring, but using force to stop them is obviously wrong.

Big difference between that and jailing someone for assault, but finding no conventional jail can hold them.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#133242: Sep 7th 2021 at 8:38:00 PM

[up][up]Did Luis get snapped?

The legend has returned.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#133243: Sep 7th 2021 at 9:14:43 PM

I have a theory that Luis will be the Sole Survivor of the three Wombats in Quantumania, and that he'll have taken a level in cynic as a result. Since T.I had his Role-Ending Misdemeanor and David Dastmalchian has said he hasn't got any calls to return, it could happen. It would be a really interesting way to develop Luis imo.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#133244: Sep 7th 2021 at 9:30:09 PM

...I just realized that's Polka Dot Man as one of Scott's friends, holy shit.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#133245: Sep 7th 2021 at 9:32:34 PM

“Kurt! You see who that is? That’s Baba Yaga!”

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#133246: Sep 7th 2021 at 9:34:45 PM

So he's cursed to see everyone as John Wick.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#133247: Sep 8th 2021 at 12:24:49 AM

David Dastmalchian is weirdly prolific in comic book stuff. He also had played characters in The Dark Knight, The Flash (2014) and Gotham

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#133248: Sep 8th 2021 at 5:45:52 AM

He also is going to be in Dune. Kind of amazing how far he's come.

Although I'll be honest, I've gotten far too used to his Russian accent, so hearing him speak in his natural voice in The Suicide Squad was very weird at first for me.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#133249: Sep 8th 2021 at 9:53:03 AM

Dastmalchian's not the only actor for whom that's happened to me. I mean, I get thrown for a loop when I see things with Charlie Cox using his native accent or any accent besides the American accent he used to play Matt Murdock. Or David Tennant's Tenth Doctor accent (which he's also used for roles like Kilgrave and Crowley) vs. his native Scottish.

Sometimes it goes the other way. The thick European accent Wanda used in her first few movies feels weird when WandaVision had Elizabeth Olsen primarily using her natural accent, but that's probably a byproduct of the fact that in WandaVision she's the main character whereas she was a benchwarmer in the prior movies (though that could swing back the other direction in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, since Olsen has suggested that will have Wanda going back to something closer to her Age of Ultron accent).

Okey Dokey!
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#133250: Sep 8th 2021 at 11:48:27 AM

...Curious question: what makes a “good” fight scene in your opinion?

I’ve been watching Daredevil, have been told by anmocalris that it still has good fight scenes even when the Hand plot gets started but...I don’t know, maybe it’s because I watch these near midnight and beyond but...it was hard to tell if these were good or not. Like, it was hard to come up with a criteria that I could judge these low-level fight scenes, forming that sort of opinion was like trying to get to the roof of your house without a ladder, the basis wasn’t there.

Edit: Got to the discovery of the hole, which I think I stopped at when it was coming out. At least, it’s the strongest memory I have.

Cue joke skit about the two waiting into the morning then the next night near the hole, still trying to hear the impact.

Edited by fredhot16 on Sep 8th 2021 at 11:51:52 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

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