TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132976: Aug 31st 2021 at 4:08:22 PM

See this is why Iron Fist needs to be recasted.

I’m open to Daredevil, Luke, or Jessica’s actors reprising the role.

But Jones, no. The role’s too toxic and should be wiped clean.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 31st 2021 at 4:08:30 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#132977: Aug 31st 2021 at 4:09:29 PM

> The role’s too toxic and should be wiped clean.

Elaborate please?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#132978: Aug 31st 2021 at 4:09:30 PM

Also, just give him the costume this time. C'mon, a mystical Immortal Weapon shouldn't just be running around in a jacket and jeans.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#132979: Aug 31st 2021 at 4:10:47 PM

Make him and his outfit unashamedly 1970's as hell.

The legend has returned.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132980: Aug 31st 2021 at 5:01:57 PM

[up][up][up] Toxic as in audience reception is too fucking negative.

Danny by the end of IF season 2 is a total joke, to the point he has to give up the power that is by right his as an attempted Author’s Saving Throw.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#132981: Aug 31st 2021 at 5:33:33 PM

I've thought about it quite a bit and not only am I a fan of Race Lifting Iron Fist as Asian but I think you can specifically differentiate him from Shang-Chi by explicitly making Danny Chinese-American, to contrast Shang-Chi being explicitly native Chinese. The Asian diaspora experience for a descendent of immigrants is significantly different than that for the immigrants themselves, which I think would be really good to explore with Danny Rand, especially since as a Chinese-American he would still be an outsider.

The only concern is perpetuating All Asians Know Martial Arts, but you address that by bringing in Jimmy Woo's Agents of Atlas and having Chloe Bennet reprise as Quake and just overall bring in a bunch of other East and Southeast Asian superheroes. You address the stereotype by not making it the majority of the representation.

Edited by Watchtower on Aug 31st 2021 at 8:34:22 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#132982: Aug 31st 2021 at 7:28:32 PM

I'd rather they Take a Third Option and have Danny be played by a Latino, Middle Eastern, or South/Southeast Asian actor. He's supposed to be an outsider, and a Foil to Luke Cage, and besides, Shang-Chi is aiming pretty hard to cover the Chinese American demographic specifically.

Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 31st 2021 at 10:28:59 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#132983: Aug 31st 2021 at 7:38:40 PM

[up]Agreed.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132984: Aug 31st 2021 at 7:42:59 PM

The honest trailer tears into him as some hipster appropriating someone else’s culture but that technically is his culture.

He was stranded there as a kid and was raised in Kun Lun for most of his life since. The guy is culturally wherever the Hell in Asia Kun Lun is located.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132985: Aug 31st 2021 at 7:44:56 PM

And in his original backstory his father was apparently the K’un-Lun clan leader's brother. Meaning Danny was originally half-Asian.

Disgusted, but not surprised
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#132986: Aug 31st 2021 at 8:11:25 PM

No, Wendell Rand was always white in the comics.

He, like Danny, just happened to have spent time in K'un-Lun, before he left the city and married Heather. In Wendell's case it was because he was brought there by a previous Iron Fist, Orson Randall. It was his desire to return there that got him killed (along with the comics version of Meachum) and led to Danny growing up in the city.

Part of his backstory (fighting Davos, defeating him but not killing him and having the match decided by a judge) was adopted for Danny in the show.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#132987: Aug 31st 2021 at 10:17:25 PM

Danny Rand being white is only a problem if he's the sole or main representative of East Asian culture. If he is eventually reintroduced to the MCU, but it's as (for example) a supporting character in a Shang-Chi sequel, that becomes a non-issue.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#132988: Sep 1st 2021 at 12:49:02 AM

In this hypothetical universe where Cox, Ritter, Colter and any other Netflix stars get to reprise their roles, I'd rather they bring back Jones too. He was perfectly fine in Luke Cage's and Iron Fist's second seasons, and it'd feel mean and spiteful to single him out just because of season 1's poor reception.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#132989: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:21:59 AM

I'm kind of just tired of hearing fans complain about him and I'd rather not have to listen to it all over again. Like you said he gave a better performance in subsequent seasons but the fandom continued to suck all the fun out of it.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132990: Sep 1st 2021 at 1:45:13 AM

Should prolly just give him a different haircut and make him shave the facial hair then. It helps to make him feel like a different character despite being the same.

Granted I never liked Jones' facial hair for the character especially since Danny is generally clean-shaven.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#132992: Sep 1st 2021 at 4:59:00 AM

I'm kind of just tired of hearing fans complain about him and I'd rather not have to listen to it all over again. Like you said he gave a better performance in subsequent seasons but the fandom continued to suck all the fun out of it.

The problem was always with the writing. Don't blame the actor, blame the writers.

Also, Finn Jones wasn't really in a position to refuse the role. He did interviews around the time of season 1 about how he was DJing and bartending while working on Game of Thrones to pay rent. Given how late he got cast, he was expected to bulk up, which requires a lot of training (and eating) in and of itself, train in wushu and Tai Chi to pull off the more contemplative close up moments, learn the script, and move from London to New York City, all in the span of about a month. (This rushed schedule really shows when you contrast it with how Charlie Cox had six months or so between casting and the start of filming Daredevil season 1 to bulk up, learn his fight choreography, learn how to convincingly play a blind man, adapt an American accent, etc.)

And it's not helped that they had to rush Iron Fist to get it out before The Defenders. In a perfect world, the production wouldn't have been rushed. They could've alleviated it a bit by casting an actor with a martial arts background, but that would've led to people simply blaming that actor for other problems the show had.

Okey Dokey!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#132993: Sep 1st 2021 at 5:55:12 AM

Yeah, honestly, I think the hate on Finn Jones was a bit overblown. He gave it his best, especially in subsequent seasons.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#132994: Sep 1st 2021 at 6:39:06 AM

[up] There's a degree of hate for Finn that I chalk up to "people hating on him because it was the trendy thing to do."

Okey Dokey!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#132995: Sep 1st 2021 at 8:11:55 AM

I don't hate Finn Jones for playing Danny. I do, however, resent the casting director and producers for casting Finn Jones. Actors are just trying to play the role they're cast for to the best of their ability.

Actors tend to be the face of films, so they're given an inordinate amount of specialness within the production - even to the point of fans and interviewers trying to ask deep lore questions to these people who have little creative input over the direction of the production. Directors also get a lot of attention because of auteur theory, which is cancer. Everyone else might as well not exist so far as the fandom is concerned.

This means that when a film is well-received, the actors and director get hailed for their upstanding production and everyone else can go to hell. And when a film is not well-received, fans form lynch mobs to assault the actors and director regardless of who actually committed the offense.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#132996: Sep 1st 2021 at 9:08:03 AM

Personally, I'd bring back Finn Jones as a different character since Danny became a powder keg. Finn Jones as Orson Randall (the predecessor Iron Fist to Danny) or the Prince of Orphans (another of the immortal weapons) would be a curious sight.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#132997: Sep 1st 2021 at 9:53:31 AM

[up] I agree with this sentiment.

Finn Jones deserves both an opportunity to play Iron Fist properly, but also a chance to do something better as well.

Let a new guy who isn't weighed down by expectations be Danny.

One Strip! One Strip!
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#132998: Sep 1st 2021 at 11:08:44 AM

Here goes the rumor mill, again. Or at the least, using old quotes to stir up more debate.

Edited by dmcreif on Sep 1st 2021 at 2:10:25 PM

Okey Dokey!
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#132999: Sep 1st 2021 at 11:12:05 AM

Aye, it might be Cox trying to cover up his possible Daredevil cameo (or not) when the film comes out. We saw something similar in Loki (2021) in regards to a certain character, so the same thing could happen in No Way Home.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Sep 1st 2021 at 11:27:08 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#133000: Sep 1st 2021 at 11:12:43 AM

Yeah, Adams also stated he wasn't in Loki but what do you know...

So we still need to wait till the actual film...

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Total posts: 186,763
Top