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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132901: Aug 30th 2021 at 6:10:55 PM

The finale of Secret Wars where Doom becomes God is him admitting Reed is smarter than him.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#132902: Aug 30th 2021 at 6:14:24 PM

There's also the first few times where Doom and Kang met, they believed that they might be related. But they were unsure if Kang was Doom's descendent, if Doom was Kang's descendent, or that they might even be the same being from different points in history.

That part's been brushed aside for the most part, but you get my drift.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Aug 30th 2021 at 9:16:17 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#132903: Aug 30th 2021 at 6:18:21 PM

I thought Kang was descended from Reed, thus his name being Nathanial Richards.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132904: Aug 30th 2021 at 6:19:21 PM

Oddly enough, the only confirmed bit of Kang's heritage is that he's related to Reed Richards.

Specifically, he's descended from Reed's father Nathaniel Richards. Meaning Reed is his many times removed uncle.

Sort of [nja]'ed, though a correction in that he's not Reed's descendant but his father Nathaniel's.

Edited by M84 on Aug 30th 2021 at 9:21:13 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#132905: Aug 30th 2021 at 6:31:04 PM

Small correction the Beyonder didn’t really choose team leaders. The other villains nominated Doom and Doom told them to screw off and then flew off to consult with RICHARDSSS

Then Kang blew up Doom’s ship to stop him from joining the heroes.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
DoubleOG (Apprentice)
#132906: Aug 30th 2021 at 7:09:16 PM

No offense to anyone here but all this gushing about Doom makes me worried about the hype backlash once he revealed. It seems some won't like him unless he has Thanos levels of importance.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132907: Aug 30th 2021 at 7:15:57 PM

What I want from an MCU Doom is someone who is both a powerful and intelligent supervillain and ultimately a really petty loser.

As for specific scenes, I'd really like Doom to have his own take on the scene from the first Iron Man movie where Tony forged his iconic suit. Basically, Doom forging his own armor would be a deliberate counterpart to that scene.

Edited by M84 on Aug 30th 2021 at 10:17:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#132908: Aug 30th 2021 at 7:22:55 PM

Doom’s getting hyped up because the poor guy has had two (or three, YMMV) lackluster movie adaptations. But also on his comics reputation. There’s a reason why Squirrel Girl became a Memetic Badass when it turned out she managed to score one of the few non-retconned victories over Doom.

GeneralGigan Godzilla from A New Empire Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Godzilla
#132909: Aug 30th 2021 at 9:40:27 PM

I can dismiss those Dooms off as products of their time.

With Julian McMahon’s Doom, the idea of a Shared Universe in Hollywood was quite the while away, it was assumed that the F4 were the only heroes in their universe, so throwing in a sorcerer with has own Fictional Country into the mix wouldn’t have worked since that would gratuitously throw magic and fake places into age where being more grounded then the comics was the rule rather then the exception, plus Doom’s lengthy backstory wouldn’t have fit into the film’s runtime.

With Domashev, it was all a matter of Josh Trank attempting to go Darker and Edgier, supertech didn’t exist and any magic would have to be a Lovecraftian Superpower, plus the film was intended to took place in a Shared Universe with the X-Men Film Series, famous for Doing In the Wizard.

But now, in the age where massive film franchises have taken over, along with the Fantastic Four being declared a Hard-to-Adapt Work, I’d say it’s time for a Marvel-wide, spellcasting Magnificent Bastard Doom to hit the screens, preferably in his own standalone film telling his backstory.

SKREEEEEEEONK!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132910: Aug 30th 2021 at 9:42:28 PM

On that note, not Marvel but I wonder if we'll ever get a Batman movie that actually has Robin.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 30th 2021 at 9:51:16 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132911: Aug 30th 2021 at 9:43:32 PM

Any solo Doom movie would have to establish that he's a Magnificent Bastard. Both the "Magnificent" part and the "Bastard" part. Basically it should make you want to root for Doom and feel very uncomfortable about rooting for him.

Edited by M84 on Aug 31st 2021 at 12:44:21 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#132912: Aug 30th 2021 at 9:58:06 PM

Thing is, it always goes back to his grudge against Reed Richards in the end. Even when he's out to take over the world and/or scheming to gain cosmic power, he's always motivated by his desire to prove he's better than Reed Richards.

Yeah, and Thanos's goal is to kill lots of people because he wants to have sex with the Grim Reaper. At the end of the day, what the people at Marvel Studios think will make for a better movie always wins out over faithfulness to the comics.

Doom could fill any role from oneshot villain who dies immediately upon the conclusion of his film to grandiose Avengers-level cosmic threat. How obsessed he is with Reed specifically will likely vary based on where on that scale he falls.

Both Whiplash and Thanos had a grievance with Tony Stark. For Whiplash, it dominated 90% of his entire personality, scheme, and objective. For Thanos, it was a minor footnote in the course of his history. Doom's enmity with Reed could be either of those things.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 30th 2021 at 9:58:49 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132913: Aug 30th 2021 at 10:01:08 PM

[up]MCU Thano's motive was also incredibly petty in the end. Ultimately he just wanted validation. He wanted people to be grateful to him for "saving" them. Everything he did was him trying to convince the ghosts of his fellow Titanians that his plan to save them would have worked.

Hence his change of plans in Endgame when he realizes people aren't going to shower him with gratitude.

Edited by M84 on Aug 31st 2021 at 1:02:27 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132914: Aug 30th 2021 at 10:04:12 PM

Should be noted that Thanos' actual nemesis, Adam Warlock was unadapted.

Meanwhile Mr. Fantastic will be a thing and it should be noted that Doom's enmity with Reed goes all the way back to college. They actually have history.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#132915: Aug 30th 2021 at 10:41:03 PM

Strange in Infinity War ends up being the much closer Adam Warlock parallel (as The Chessmaster of the Avengers whose plan involves sacrificing everybody), so it's actually kind of amusing Thanos ends up having more of a personal rapport with Stark rather than Strange (particularly given Strange really kind of hard-carries the Avengers in Infinity War).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132916: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:06:29 PM

On further thought, there's no reason why they couldn't maintain the rivalry.

For one thing we haven't really done that sort of long-term rivalry for any character. Most villains are one and dones who never make it past their starting movie. The closest I guess is Loki but he peaked by his second appearance in Avengers and never really regained his menace since.

Plus the motivation of being defined by the feelings for another character even if they aren't in the movie has already been sorta done, Both Vulture and Mysterio are defined by their hatred of Tony despite neither physically meeting in their movies, Hell Tony was already dead when Mysterio sprang his plans forthwith. And Steve's shadow can be felt through the entirety of Winter Falcon, with everyone in that show from Sam, Bucky, Karli, Sharon, Zemo, and Walker all being motivated or affected by Steve in some way.

They might not do it, but no reason why they can't.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#132917: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:17:55 PM

One benefit to Doom: since he wears the mask 24/7, in all his scenes he could be played by stuntpeople with a voice actor dubbed over him, so having him appear in a lot of different films or series wouldn't be nearly as expensive or difficult to schedule as with most other characters.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#132918: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:30:55 PM

This Doom convo keeps making me think about the Tommy Wiseau as Doom suggestion.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
GeneralGigan Godzilla from A New Empire Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Godzilla
#132919: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:46:23 PM

[up] Nah, he should play Morbius.

SKREEEEEEEONK!
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#132920: Aug 31st 2021 at 2:30:36 AM

A UK theatre chain is listing the runtime for No Way Home as 150 minutes, making it the longest movie for a solo act in the MCU

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132921: Aug 31st 2021 at 3:06:00 AM

Well this is gonna be a Hell of a movie then.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#132922: Aug 31st 2021 at 5:23:33 AM

Doom was from Latveria in the 2005 movie, he just didn't rule it because his backstory there was that he was a businessman.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#132923: Aug 31st 2021 at 7:09:58 AM

I just worry about padding when a film has a long run time,the film has to be good enough justify 150 minutes of our time

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#132924: Aug 31st 2021 at 9:54:14 AM

One benefit to Doom: since he wears the mask 24/7, in all his scenes he could be played by stuntpeople with a voice actor dubbed over him, so having him appear in a lot of different films or series wouldn't be nearly as expensive or difficult to schedule as with most other characters.

Could. The trick will be convincing Marvel Studios to actually do that. They'll most likely do what they always do: cast a big celebrity and then having him whip off his mask every other scene because his contract stipulates that he gets a certain amount of face-time. Even Deadpool gives Ryan Reynolds a bunch of maskless scenes so audiences can see his cosmetically tumor-ridden face.

Perpetually faceless characters like Doom are a hurdle for live-action because of this. There's a reason the second Fantastic Four movie conveniently healed Doom's scarring and let him walk around maskless, and that reason has nothing to do with what the writers thought the best creative choice for the story would be..

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 31st 2021 at 9:54:39 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#132925: Aug 31st 2021 at 10:13:36 AM

It's not impossible for Disney to keep Doom masked for most of the film. The Mandalorian only showed Djarin's face three times during the first two seasons, and he was the main protagonist. We could also compare it to Vader in the original Star Wars trilogy, who was properly unmasked at the tail-end of Return of the Jedi.

So, it's not impossible.


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