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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#132876: Aug 30th 2021 at 8:36:11 AM

Maybe you can call it “Victor Von Doom” with DOOM in all caps.

The legend has returned.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#132877: Aug 30th 2021 at 8:50:53 AM

"Von Doom, P.H.D." has a nice ring to it. Makes the movie sound clinical.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 30th 2021 at 8:51:27 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132878: Aug 30th 2021 at 9:22:05 AM

Though I hope the MCU version keeps it so that his Doctor title is a self-appointed one.

Because in the comics he never actually finished school.

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#132879: Aug 30th 2021 at 9:48:20 AM

Strange as in 'Dr.Strange fights the supernatural or paranormal' rather then meta humour

Trust me, that wasn't humorous. You, the reader, being killed and brought back to life was absolutely meant to be dramatic and shocking. And that's how it came across, because it was executed well.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#132880: Aug 30th 2021 at 10:20:45 AM

We have a whole trope dedicated to stuff like that, although it can have mixed results depending on how it's executed.

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#132881: Aug 30th 2021 at 10:37:54 AM

I can't help thinking he chose the Doctor title at least partially out of petty oneupmanship. If RIIIICCCHHHAAARRRDSSS was going by merely "Mister" Fantastic then Doom was going to be a Doctor, dammit.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#132882: Aug 30th 2021 at 10:49:03 AM

Reed is an actual Ph.D., though. If he ever feels like using that as a comeback.

Wake me up at your own risk.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#132883: Aug 30th 2021 at 10:54:26 AM

Uh no joke but Doom's origin story would honestly make a great film.

Victor Von Doom was born decades ago to a tribe of Latverian Romani people under the rule of an unnamed nobleman called the Baron. Victor's mother was witch Cynthia Von Doom who died by Mephisto's hand while Von Doom was young. His father, Werner, was the leader of the tribe and a renowned medicine man who kept his wife's sorceress life quiet in order to protect Victor from a similar fate. Soon after Cynthia's death, the Baron's wife grew incurably ill from cancer and Werner was called to the capital to heal her. When she succumbed to illness, the Baron labeled Werner a murderer and called for his death. Werner escaped with young Victor, having realized the night before the woman would die. He goes on to die of exposure on the mountainside, cradling the boy in a final embrace and giving him his garments to keep him warm. Victor survived and, on return to the Romani camp, discovered his mother's occult instruments and swore revenge on the Baron. Victor grew into a headstrong and brilliant man, combining sorcery and technology to create fantastic devices which would keep the Baron's men at bay and protect the Roma people. His exploits attracted the attention of the dean of Empire State University, who sent someone to the camp.[49] Offered the chance to study in the United States, Von Doom chose to leave his homeland and his love, Valeria, behind.

Once in the United States, Victor met fellow student and future rival Reed Richards, who was intended to be his roommate, but Von Doom disliked him and asked for another roommate. After a time, Victor constructed a machine intended to communicate with the dead, specifically his mother. Though Richards tried to warn him about a flaw in the machine, seeing his calculations were a few decimals off, Victor continued on with disastrous results, the machine violently failing with the resulting explosion seemingly severely damaging his face.[49] It is later revealed that Ben Grimm, a friend of Richards who despised Victor for his superior attitude, tampered with the machine. He would later blame himself for Doom's initial fall to villainy and rise to power but never revealed this information to anyone.[50] Expelled after the accident, Victor traveled the world until he collapsed on a Tibetan mountainside. Rescued by a clan of monks, Victor quickly mastered the monks' disciplines as well as the monks themselves. Victor then forged himself a suit of armor, complete with an iron mask, but before the mask had finished cooling, Victor put it on permanently bonding it to his skin, and then took the mantle Doctor Doom.[49] As Doctor Doom, he would go on to menace those he felt responsible for his accident—primarily, Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four. He succeeded in leading a revolution to take over Latveria from the Baron, taking an interest in the welfare of the Roma.

I'm kinda sad it's rarely adapted in media. It's quite something.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#132884: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:34:22 AM

The '90s Fantastic Four cartoon showed Doom's backstory, although it left out the part about his mother being killed by Mephisto.

Oddly, the closest I've that story adapted outside of the comics was The Super Hero Squad Show, only it was Cthon who took Doom's mother prisoner and, uh... played it a lot more for laughs:

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#132885: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:36:02 AM

Reed is an actual Ph.D., though. If he ever feels like using that as a comeback.

I think Otto Octavius once mocked Doom for that.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#132886: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:37:22 AM

I find it funny how Reed’s only objection to Doom’s machine isn’t that it’s pseudoscientific bullshit but that the coordinates are off a bit.

The legend has returned.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#132887: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:49:49 AM

Yeah, Doom's backstory could easily just be an entire film unto itself, ending with him taking over Laveria and declaring war on RICHAAARRRDSS. Considering how convoluted his backstory is, that might actually be the best move, because that's a LOT of backstory to blow in an exposition dump. Might as well just do it as a movie.

Also wow, I had no idea that Ben was actually literally responsible for Doom's machine blowing up. That... kind of ruins a lot of things, like how Doom is responsible for the accident but blames Reed wrongfully, and it makes Ben look a lot worse. Maybe don't include that detail in the movie.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#132888: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:56:58 AM

Ben causing the accident was a retcon and from what I remember even that was undone.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#132889: Aug 30th 2021 at 11:58:45 AM

It wasn't really undone so much, just that the issue that established it also established that accident or no, Doom was always going to be a supervillain and the accident just one possible impetus.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#132890: Aug 30th 2021 at 12:45:47 PM

So, for a DR. DOOM movie, here's the 3-act structure:

  • Act 1: Victor Von Doom is born to a tribe of Latverian Romani people under the rule of the Baron. Victor's mother was witch Cynthia Von Doom who died by Mephisto's hand while Von Doom was young. His father, Werner, is the leader of the tribe and a renowned medicine man who kept his wife's sorceress life quiet in order to protect Victor from a similar fate. Soon after Cynthia's death, the Baron's wife grows incurably ill from cancer and Werner is called to the capital to heal her. When she succumbs to illness, the Baron labels Werner a murderer and calls for his death. Werner escapes with young Victor, having realized the night before the woman would die. He goes on to die of exposure on the mountainside, cradling the boy in a final embrace and giving him his garments to keep him warm. Victor survives and, on return to the Romani camp, discovers his mother's occult instruments and swears revenge on the Baron.

  • Act 2: Victor grows into a headstrong and brilliant man, combining sorcery and technology to create fantastic devices to keep the Baron's men at bay and protect the Roma people. His exploits attract the attention of the dean of Empire State University, who sends someone to the camp. Offered the chance to study in the United States, Von Doom chooses to leave his homeland and his love, Valeria, behind. Once in the United States, Victor meets his roommate, Reed Richards, and Reed's best friend Ben Grimm. After a time, Victor constructs a machine intended to communicate with his dead parents. Though Richards tries to warn him about a flaw in the machine, Victor continues on with disastrous results, the machine violently failing with the resulting explosion severely damaging his face.

  • Act 3: Expelled after the accident, Victor travels back to Latveria and forges himself a suit of armor, complete with an iron mask, and takes the mantle Doctor Doom. As Doctor Doom, he goes on to lead a revolution to take over Latveria from the Baron. And then he declares revenge on RICHARDS.

It even comes with a convenient main villain in the form of the Baron.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 30th 2021 at 3:50:53 AM

GeneralGigan Godzilla from A New Empire Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Godzilla
#132891: Aug 30th 2021 at 4:52:39 PM

[up] Knowing Marvel, they’ll almost certainly composite a more well known villain into the Baron’s position, possibly making him Mephisto in disguise.

SKREEEEEEEONK!
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#132892: Aug 30th 2021 at 4:58:00 PM

Is Doom his actual name or his supervillain name?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#132893: Aug 30th 2021 at 4:58:52 PM

His real name is Victor von Doom

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#132894: Aug 30th 2021 at 4:59:11 PM

At this point, Marvel's probably going to introduce Mephisto in the Hawkeye show or something, because that's the last place anyone will expect him to turn up.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#132895: Aug 30th 2021 at 5:02:43 PM

There are a lot of variables in what we can expect from an MCU Doom. A critical one is what kind of villain they want to use him as.

  1. A one-and-done movie villain for the Fantastic Four.
  2. A franchise villain for multiple Fantastic Four films.
  3. A Myth Arc villain for an entire phase or more of MCU films.

If they go for the third option, then his rivalry with Reed will likely be present, but not character-defining. Like, he may have a personal relationship dynamic with Reed with scenes together highlighting their enmity and Reed will likely deliver the final blow against him in the big Avengers film, but his plans and scope will be much more grandiose than simply "Screw Reed."

Kinda like how Thanos and Tony's relationship in Infinity War and Endgame was depicted, except with two characters whose dynamic actually comes from the comics and wasn't made up for the MCU.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 30th 2021 at 5:03:20 AM

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#132896: Aug 30th 2021 at 5:03:07 PM

If he's only to show up anywhere it's going to be in a Ghost rider movie

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#132897: Aug 30th 2021 at 5:43:33 PM

It be interesting to see if they'll have Doom interact with Kang, since the two have a... complicated history in the comics.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132899: Aug 30th 2021 at 6:07:32 PM

[up]x4 Thing is, it always goes back to his grudge against Reed Richards in the end. Even when he's out to take over the world and/or scheming to gain cosmic power, he's always motivated by his desire to prove he's better than Reed Richards.

Disgusted, but not surprised
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#132900: Aug 30th 2021 at 6:10:53 PM

[up][up]During the original Secret Wars, the Beyonder placed Doom in charge of the villians' faction. Kang protested, and Doom had Ultron vaporize him on the spot. Later, when Doom managed to steal the Beyonder's power, he resurrected Kang and in later stories keeps holding that over him so that Kang will know his place on Doom's personal pecking order. Kang, naturally, is very much not fond of Doom for this. Not to mention they're both rivals in wanting to take over the world, though Kang already rules it in the future and wants to also take over the present. Doom, by comparison, only has a country, so I imagine he's a bit jealous.

Edited by lbssb on Aug 30th 2021 at 6:11:05 AM

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