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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
You know, I never got around to watching it, but how does Doctor Strange: The Sorcerer Supreme stack up to the 2016 movie? Both films are origin stories for Strange, so I'm curious what parts it executed differently (for better or for worse).
Interestingly the threats Strange regularly faces are of such scale that him being a seasoned mage doesn't matter.
A main thing about him is that he is constantly facing all sorts of Gods and otherworldly eldritch abominations whose powers far outweigh anything a human is normally capable of.
So he has to think of various schemes and gambits just to divert them off of Earth, regularly sacrificing his soul so many times that he eventually has nothing left to give.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Which was perfectly executed at the end of Dr. Strange. That whole "trap Dormammu in an infinite loop of killing him" gambit is the kind of way Dr. Strange solves all of his biggest problems. I'll be disappointed if Multiverse of Madness doesn't end in a similar way.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 27th 2021 at 6:42:19 AM
Strange's part in the eventual defeat of Thanos was actually pretty accurate to his comic self too. He didn't beat him by zapping him with magic bolts, he used his power and intelligence to set in motion events that would eventually lead to victory.
Realistically Strange is probably a fairly tragic character in some ways. Like a certain (Spider) man once said, "with great power comes great responsibility" and the Sorcerer Supreme is very, very powerful. He foresaw all the deaths by dusting and Tony's eventual perma-death but had to accept that what he had to do meant those deaths had to happen.
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."I mean, he did preface it by telling Tony to his face, "I will not hesitate to let you and Peter die to win this thing."
The callousness blunts any sense of tragedy surrounding Strange's choices. At no point does it feel like Strange was backed into a hard decision and made a tough call. He said he would buy victory with Tony's blood in a heartbeat, and he's a man of his word.
That's kind of the interesting thing about the whole "Strange and Tony have the same personality" thing. Tony was a Jerk with a Heart of Gold but a constant screw-up. He made a lot of bad calls but he always meant well and he personally felt the costs of his mistakes. Strange is basically the polar opposite; he has immeasurable capabilities and consistently knows all the right plays to make even when others find them unthinkable, but he's an unfeeling jackass.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 27th 2021 at 8:45:29 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I wonder if the payoff to the multiverse stuff will ultimately be the integration of the Fox-verse characters into the MCU, in a similar manner as Crisis on Infinite Earths, where afterwards the Fawcett, Charlton and Quality characters had “always” been on the main DC Earth, even though that wasn’t true from an out of universe perspective…
Doctor Strange is my favorite Marvel hero and him being a wisened, experienced master (and older man) from the get-go instead of some young new hot-shot is a big part of the appeal. His feature movie being another origin film was a disappointment. As others have said, he's at his best when he's the audience's tour guide to the mysterious and magical, rather than just another tourist ooh-ing and ahh-ing alongside us.
Were it up to me, the film would begin in the present day with Strange as a master, and only show key moments of his origins (the arrogant surgeon, the car accident, meeting the Ancient One) as flashbacks set ten or so years ago while leaving some details deliberately a mystery.
At least Strange's portrayal in later films has all course-corrected.
Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Aug 27th 2021 at 11:55:38 AM
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!![]()
There's probably only a handful of true Foxverse characters that will make the jump for good (mostly Deadpool plus some of his supporting cast) as I think Marvel would want to build their own X-Men franchise rather than trying to jam the existing one into the MCU. And in that case I think making it as uncomplicated as possible is the right move.
There was a multiverse breach, they got stranded on the MCU side, they don't have a feasible way back. The end.
Though of course with Deadpool specifically I half expect him to just appear in the MCU without any explanation. When characters question where he came from and why he's here now, he gives nonsensical contradictory answers.
The callousness blunts any sense of tragedy surrounding Strange's choices. At no point does it feel like Strange was backed into a hard decision and made a tough call. He said he would buy victory with Tony's blood in a heartbeat, and he's a man of his word.
That's kind of the interesting thing about the whole "Strange and Tony have the same personality" thing. Tony was a Jerk with a Heart of Gold but a constant screw-up. He made a lot of bad calls but he always meant well and he personally felt the costs of his mistakes. Strange is basically the polar opposite; he has immeasurable capabilities and consistently knows all the right plays to make even when others find them unthinkable, but he's an unfeeling jackass.
Eh. If it helps, I think if he'd seen that it was his own death that was necessary to prevent Thanos' victory, he'd have done it.
We've already seen that he's willing to endure many, many deaths to save the world in his own movie.
Plus, he's a doctor. I'm sure the idea of sacrificing a life to save more lives is abhorrent for a man who spent so long saving lives (even if mostly for his own ego).
One Strip! One Strip!To me the entire bit of him sacrificing the Time Stone in IW is painted as him willingly sacrificing the mission for the life of a friend/companion, in contrast to his earlier callousness. Yes, it's easy to write it off as him just making the first move for the one long-term plan he's seen work, but that's still supposed to be a big gamble and even then it's not depicted so methodically.
If anything validates that read to me it's how he's shown with Peter in the NWH trailer. In IW Strange barely acknowledges Peter and treats him like the Tagalong Kid, but in the NWH trailer Strange is so cordial to Peter as a fellow superhero that he's willing to toy with multiversal magic just to help Peter out of his jam.
(And I haven't looked at leaked spoilers but I really doubt Strange is secretly evil or a fake like people are theorizing.)
Edited by Watchtower on Aug 27th 2021 at 12:41:05 PM
I agree with that.
I strongly disagree that Strange in the MCU is an "unfeeling jackass", and I hope they can show that in the sequel. I don't read comic books and I have zero preconceptions about how the character "should be", because Strange in the movies is the only iteration of the character I know (and like). I understand it feels different for comic book fans.
I don't think Strange is unfeeling but I think he can come across that way in universe and out, but by design.
When he's "on the job" he's often operating on a scale and timespan that means he doesn't really consider any one human life except how it fits into the issue at that point - hence his apparent insensitivity.
Off the clock he can have personal friends and acquaintances... Like Peter.
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."See, the problem with that is that Strange read the script before the fight started.
- There is only one possible chain of events that can lead to success. Only one and none other. Everything has to happen exactly according to this one potential future for victory to be achieved, but if everyone does exactly what they're supposed to do, it will be.
- Strange has seen this chain of events in advance and is acting in accordance with it.
There's a reason his last words are, "We're in the endgame now." The films make it vividly clear that Strange is doing exactly what the future says will work, following the One Future Where We Win. That he knows in advance that he must sacrifice the Time Gem and himself temporarily mutes any emotional Heroic Sacrifice points his omniscient temporary vacation from existence might be worth.
He's not sacrificing the mission for a friend when he's pragmatically doing the only thing that will fulfill the mission, which just happens to look like sacrificing the mission for a friend. Sacrificing the mission would require Strange to deviate from the One Future Where We Win.
And, uh, we'd know if he did that.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 27th 2021 at 11:28:24 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
I wonder if Strange is prone to Heroic Safe Mode. Medics in real life sometimes are, and he used to be a doctor.
This whole discussion reminds me of Mobius's line where he says that he either genuinely sympathizes with Loki or wants to use him for his cause, and he won't tell which one is true.
I'd go with the idealistic explanation for Strange's actions, but YMMV.
There's also emotion in his voice when he says "Tony, there was no other way." Almost like "I'm sorry I have to do this."
Edited by Asherinka on Aug 28th 2021 at 10:21:19 PM
Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.The closest I can see to a hint that Strange was conflicted over whether to sacrifice Tony is his mention of having examined over 14 million possible futures, As the Ancient One explained in Strange’s own movie, divination does not let you see past your own death. Therefore it would’ve been easy for Strange to see which futures are successes and which are failures, because the failures abruptly end while the successes keep going. But that he searched through so many futures that likely ended within the hour of encountering Thanos suggests that, even if the one successful route was easy to distinguish Strange kept looking anyway for another way that could save Tony’s life.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 27th 2021 at 11:54:55 AM
This is also true to the comics. It's taken to the point that when he forges a mystical dimension cutting blade for a rescue mission and his smithing mentor dubbed it the Sword of Strange, Stephen instead claimed it was the Scalpel of Strange.
He's also willing to make a Deal with the Devil (as in an actual demon) to restore his hands to their original peak health so that he could perform emergency brain surgery on an injured child.
The Doctor part of his name is something Stephen takes very seriously, unlike Doom who just added it to his name to be cool. Doom isn't even an actual doctor — he never finished college and thus never got his doctorate.
On a side note, it is oddly fitting that one of Doctor Strange's worst foes, Shuma-Gorath, is in many ways a living cancer on the multiverse.
Edited by M84 on Aug 29th 2021 at 3:51:48 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised

I mean. That seems like a weird question 'cause, like. By the same logic, what was left to say about Captain America after First Avenger ended? And once Tony Stark finished building his new updated suit midway through the first movie, there was nothing else worth watching that Iron Man ever did, right?
You realize that Origin Story is not literally the only type of superhero story that can be enjoyable to watch, right? Or do we all agree that Spider-Man peaked at Amazing Spider-Man, and literally every Raimi and MCU Spider-film pales in comparison to Amazing 1's genius?
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 27th 2021 at 4:04:06 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.