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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#132751: Aug 27th 2021 at 1:02:57 AM

Film was okay but unremarkable right up until the Dormammu scene. I hold that scene as one of the single best in the MCU.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#132752: Aug 27th 2021 at 1:09:36 AM

It was a great Phase 1 movie stuck in the middle of Phase 3 with the likes of Civil War, Ragnarok and Black Panther. Its problem is that it was an origin movie that played it very safe and got compared to the first Iron Man film a lot. Too formulaic.

An unpopular opinion, but I liked all interactions between Strange and the Ancient One. I know she gets a lot of hate due to that whitewashing issue, but I believe the actress did a good job. My favourite scene from the film:

Btw, she is basically encouraging Strange to be more reckless here. Which is unsurprising for someone who tampered with the Dark Dimension.

And she notes that Mordo is rigid. I'd say him teaming up with some Eldritch Abomination is just as likely as Zemo teaming up with Karli.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 27th 2021 at 11:45:04 AM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#132753: Aug 27th 2021 at 2:10:23 AM

For me, Strange plaid it too safe and was too close to Iron Man in tone and arc. However I did really enjoy the world building of this order and how they work with a hierarchy and multiple locations and a clear mission.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132754: Aug 27th 2021 at 3:02:19 AM

MCU Mordo's motivation is a bit more like another Doctor Strange foe the Empirikul rather than comics Mordo.

The Empirikul fyi was a villain who believed Magic Is Evil due to his homeworld's worship of Shuma-Gorath and set out to wipe out magic from the multiverse. Comics Mordo otoh was basically a standard Deceptive Disciple who wanted the power of the Sorcerer Supreme for himself.

Edited by M84 on Aug 27th 2021 at 6:04:59 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#132755: Aug 27th 2021 at 7:41:21 AM

I would have liked for Dr. Strange to take place over the course of a longer timeframe, personally. Push Stephen's car crash back to some time in the 00's and throw in a timeskip to let him spend years training at Kamar Taj before all these shenanigans with Dormammu unfold.

Dr. Strange is at his most fun when he's an experienced professional with a rebel streak and a bit of an arrogance about him. His depiction in his first film tried to keep him firmly in Hapless Everyman territory. Thankfully, his other appearances since have course-corrected on that front.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 27th 2021 at 7:42:14 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
DoubleOG (Apprentice)
#132756: Aug 27th 2021 at 7:47:10 AM

I wouldn't exactly call a world class surgeon an "everyman".

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#132757: Aug 27th 2021 at 8:02:31 AM

Anyone can be an Everyman in the right situation. Strange's background as a surgeon only informs his motive for going on his journey. Throughout the film, he's consistently the put-upon new guy with no idea what he's doing, but who is able to bumble his way to success through a combination of enthusiasm and New Guy Audacity to do the things that all the stuffy people who've been in this environment forever would never consider.

It's an Everyman story. What Strange brings to the table is that he just doesn't know better, and is thus equipped to solve the problem that people who know better can't.

His other appearances throughout the MCU, on the other hand, treat him as simply The Super-Capable Magic Guy, a realm that Dr. Strange's character fits more comfortably into.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 27th 2021 at 8:05:37 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#132758: Aug 27th 2021 at 8:05:31 AM

Time skip would have been good

Could even preface it with a joke about a cocky Strange thinking it will take a lot less time than it does

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#132759: Aug 27th 2021 at 9:25:55 AM

I don't think Strange at that point in his life could be cocky. Remember, he's at his lowest point, has just learned magic is real in a visually stunning Break the Haughty moment, and then is told he'll need years of study (while probably wondering if he can even do it due to his hands).

He starts regaining his arrogance after he learned to create portals though, as the movie shows, but before that, he'd definitely have little illusions as to how he'll do.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#132760: Aug 27th 2021 at 9:31:44 AM

  • The Ancient One: It will take you ten years to become a truly proficient master of sorcery.
  • Strange: Oh, please. I'll do it in three.
  • Ten Years Later

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#132761: Aug 27th 2021 at 9:44:20 AM

Someone made an animated version of the No Way Home trailer using clips from the 90s Spider-Man show.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#132762: Aug 27th 2021 at 9:54:44 AM

[up][up] Heh

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#132763: Aug 27th 2021 at 10:09:46 AM

I liked Doctor Strange as a newbie in his first film. One gotta start somewhere. If his entire arc in that film happened offscreen, and we immediately got a seasoned mage, what story would be left to tell about him?

Any ideas on what arc he is going to have in the sequel? Another lesson in humility? Being tempted to return to his former life (aka I Just Want to Be Normal)? Letting Christine go? Romance with Clea? Dealing with some past regrets we don't know about?

[down]Mm, that's a good one. Strange definitely has a ptsd now :-)

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 27th 2021 at 8:21:48 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#132764: Aug 27th 2021 at 10:16:08 AM

Dealing with the trauma of experiencing death a lot more than a normal person?

The legend has returned.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#132765: Aug 27th 2021 at 10:20:47 AM

Strange opens a forbidden tome of necromancy spells and raises zombies!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#132766: Aug 27th 2021 at 10:41:30 AM

He also sent a man to his death

But it was Tony so that might not have psychologically affected him

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#132767: Aug 27th 2021 at 11:11:22 AM

They've added All Hail the King to Disney Plus.

Edited by dmcreif on Aug 27th 2021 at 2:12:07 PM

Okey Dokey!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#132768: Aug 27th 2021 at 11:18:45 AM

Disney: “We’re so sorry, gay people, it’s too much to show openly gay heroes right now.”

All Hail The King: Justin Hammer has a boyfriend and Trevor Slattery says he’s done it with men and women.

Not saying its depiction is good, on the contrary the short treats both with mockery, but it really stands out how evident the gayness in the short is compared to today’s Disney blockbusters. But only because it’s a target of ridicule. sad

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 27th 2021 at 11:19:08 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132769: Aug 27th 2021 at 11:44:14 AM

Damn the Mandarin from the Armored Adventures show looks fucking rad.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/818015-mandarin_super_97.jpg

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#132770: Aug 27th 2021 at 11:44:37 AM

That’s just Shredder

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#132772: Aug 27th 2021 at 11:55:39 AM

I barely remember much of what happened in Doctor Strange beyond the Dormammu scene, the bit where they really manage to go crazy with the special effects and freak Stephen out (it's when he first meets the Ancient One), and the car crash scene...which I only remember because that's the one time they play a Pink Floyd song in the whole movie.

I think I'd said it before but it really could've been awesome if they just used old Pink Floyd songs for the score.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#132773: Aug 27th 2021 at 1:06:10 PM

What bothered me with the first Dr. Strange movie was how surprisingly grounded the magic is. Like the magic itself isn't just magic, it's this spiritual manipulation of cosmic energies across dimensions, and the Sorcerers of Kamar-Taj are depicted as this order of Magic Knights that summon magic weapons to kung-fu fight each other. It's not necessarily bad on it's own, it's just not what I'm looking for with Dr. Strange, the Sorcerer Supreme.

The depictions of him since have course-corrected on this front too, which has been good to see. IIRC a lot of that more grounded take was influenced by director Scott Derrickson and so I'm really hoping between Sam Raimi and writer Michael Waldron hot off Loki that it's going to be a lot more wild. And if the collection of rumors I've heard lately suggest anything then it absolutely will be.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#132774: Aug 27th 2021 at 2:19:06 PM

I definatly liked Strange's fight in Infinity War where he could do some more elaborate stuff, more of that.

The timeline of the film is weirdly hazy. You get the feeling that time is passing, because the order feels increasingly depleted as time goes on and strange's hair visibly lengthens.

But because we see in an early scene that avengers tower exists, he can't have been studying magic for more than four years when he became a master. And I feel like it should be double that.

Of course he only became a Master because the order was suffering low numbers and they needed someone to appoint to the sanctum.

It feels less like an issue now that Doctor Strange was five years ago and strange in universe is maybe aproaching a decade of experience.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#132775: Aug 27th 2021 at 3:18:21 PM

I think the Doctor Strange film has some very strong suits (namely with some of the visuals, quirks and performances) but it's all kind of buried under some pretty glaring flaws.

The boiler-plate origin story is one. I'm of the opinion (which I've often shared) that Strange isn't a character particularly well-suited for origin stories. He's much like Sherlock Holmes (yeah, yeah), in that his appeal as a character is seeing him as this wise sage who knows much more than the audience about the happenings and takes us in a wild adventure into his strange world and the fun is more seeing the wild stragems he'll come up with to outsmart people and figure things out. You can see this in real time in the MCU where his own film only picks up steam in the last third where Strange grabs a handle of magic and starts coming up with fun gambits to save the day. And his character really hit his stride in Ragnarok and the Infinity Duology where he's basically his comic self with the casual sorcerous knowledge and The Chessmaster -esque portrayal.

Of course, the other elephant in the room is the spineless white-washing that just completely dents proceedings.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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