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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#132651: Aug 26th 2021 at 12:56:10 PM

You want to talk brutal? How about the hospital scene from Spider-Man 2 where Raimi really showed off his background in making horror movies?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#132652: Aug 26th 2021 at 12:57:15 PM

Gold is also easier to melt down and fence.

So you can exchange it for cash that isn't traceable

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#132653: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:03:49 PM

Oh I wasn’t questioning the choice of gold coins, that’s just for visual flair. It’s just funny to picture a supervillain who pays for building a death weapon, like if Thanos left with the Infinity Gauntlet after giving the dwarves a huge check.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#132654: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:04:30 PM

I really love how they did the arms. Quite an upgrade from their traditional look in the comics, which has always looked quite goofy in my opinion. They just looked too simple and weak, whereas with these you can really believe they're strong enough to threaten Spider-Man.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#132655: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:12:39 PM

> which has always looked quite goofy in my opinion. They just looked too simple and weak

in fariness,that makes it easier for a comic book artist draw them

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#132656: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:13:25 PM

Dr. Octopus' arms are a really fascinating and incredible piece of filmmaking with the mix of physical props and CGI infused with body language they were given. It's in fact quite a pity the new ones will be just CGI.

There's a great BTS on it:

I really like how they were given a more serpentine quality, complete with the slithering, sudden strikes and vaguely hissing mechanical noises they make.

The cameras/eyes on the end of each arm are also a great touch that give Octopus basically a Evil Counterpart to the spidey sense (as the cameras make very hard to catch him off-guard in the film, as in several sequences he catches things outside his field of vision with the aid of the arm-sights).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#132657: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:17:12 PM

Yeah, the arms had a very Uncanny Valley feeling to themselves, in a positive manner. Like straight out of a horror flick.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#132658: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:17:38 PM

Yeah those arms aged quite well.

Glad people are appreciating the action in the trilogy, the train scene is my favorite in all of Spider-Man action.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#132659: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:19:13 PM

Explaining how these characters are alive is going to be tricky. Honestly, if it was just Ock returning for No Way Home, it wouldn't be a problem. He was last seen collapsing his sun reactor thing and sinking into the ocean with it. You could totally make that a Never Found the Body thing, and the reactor is exactly the sort of thing comics would use to go "And then he was blasted into another dimension."

But that excuse doesn't work for the Green Goblin, Sandman, Lizard, etc. Strange's spell provides reasonable justification for how they're here, but it will be interesting to see if the film has an answer for how they're alive.

No idea if Maguire or Garfield are going to be there, but I think we are expected to suspend disbelief that Tom Holland and Tobey Maguire are in-universe identical given that Ock seems to recognize Peter on sight.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132660: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:19:35 PM

Man the Goblins glider is just rad.

A real iconic weapon there.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#132661: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:23:40 PM

[up][up] I wager these characters will all just be Back from the Dead temporarily due to multiversal shenanigans.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#132662: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:24:37 PM

As long as we're on the subject of multiverses, I wasn't sure whether to bring this up in the WandaVision thread or here, but I see this from Grace Randolph and I'm like, well, "I gotta take this skeptically. I like the idea of antagonist Wanda in Multiverse of Madness, not villain Wanda."

Okey Dokey!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#132663: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:24:57 PM

By the way, I'm going to die laughing if the whole Sinister Six thing just turns out to be Mysterio at it again. We have Lizard, Electro, Sandman, Doc Ock, and Green Goblin. There's a clear sixth member missing here, which will presumably be one of the MCU baddies. So, Vulture or Mysterio. But Mysterio brings some, uh, implications....

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#132664: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:25:12 PM

The practical Ock arms were very cool, but I recall part of why they’re all CG now is because the puppet arms were very heavy and Molina is older than he was then.

I should know, I once dressed up as Doc Ock for Halloween in middle school with arms made of aluminum pipes and man were they surprisingly heavy. Couldn’t sit down at all either. [lol]

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 26th 2021 at 1:25:59 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#132665: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:30:13 PM

Yeah, one thing that always distracted me about Spider-Man 2 is that the arms looked WAY too heavy. I never bought that Octavius's unfit scientist legs were able to support all four giant metal arms, the only context in which they were believable was when the arms were supporting themselves or one arm was being used as a third leg.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#132666: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:32:07 PM

[up][up][up] Is Sandman actually confirmed? I'd say Scorpion makes sense as the new MCU villain. And if Sandman isn't in then you'd have a nice balance of two villains per series.

Edited by FGHIK on Aug 26th 2021 at 3:32:23 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#132667: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:34:19 PM

[up] The only confirmed returning villains are Ock, Electro and Goblin, iirc. They could pretty easily do a Sinister Six of Ock, Electro, Vulture, Mysterio, and Goblin. Or if they want to separate out Goblin as per the usual, Shocker.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#132668: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:35:07 PM

Just don't overcrowd, please.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#132670: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:41:14 PM

Venom,that means stay away,no symbiotes!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132671: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:42:22 PM

Kind of a shame we might not see Holland don the symbiote suit cause of the Venom movies.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 26th 2021 at 1:42:33 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#132672: Aug 26th 2021 at 1:58:03 PM

Regarding the action scenes, I think the fight scenes in the Raimi trilogy are fairly incredible. They have a somewhat clear Matrix-esque weight/weightlesness to them at times. The fight choreographers of both films were, unsurprisingly (in what must be a Running Gag by now of every time I talk about western action cinema) involved in the stunt work of the Matrix films.

The credited fight choreographers of both films are Clint Cadinha and Dion Lam. The former is american stunt performer who worked in films like Showdown in Little Tokyo, Point Break, The Crow, Minority Report (and the first Matrix), while Dion Lam is a born and raised Hong Kong tradition disciple (being a natural Hong konger if the name didn't tip you off) who made his career working in HK films (namely alongside Stephen Chow) like Return to a Better Tomorrow, Royal Tramp, Saint of Gamblers, Black Mask and both Matrix films (he has also done action for the recently released Dynasty Warriors film oddly enough). I do think all films must have had a heavy dose of Sam Raimi's own presence too, considering his many emblematic directorial quirks are present in there (like the ultra-sharp snap-zoom close-ups).

The train fight scene in Spider-Man 2 in particular I find maybe the best action scene in spider-man trilogy and it's up there as top 5 best action scenes in superhero film history (if not n. 1). Aside from Octopus vs Spidey itself being great, the fact its climax is Spidey stopping a train full of civilians even though it completely exhausts him is a wonderful note emblematic of his character (and the train passengers seeing him maskless and carrying him in a Messiah-like manner is a touching, if ham-fisted, moment).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#132673: Aug 26th 2021 at 2:06:26 PM

I love the cinematography and sense of danger and big moments of the Rami fights, it makes me sad that the vast majority of the MCU fights don't have that.

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#132674: Aug 26th 2021 at 2:23:22 PM

If this Ock is literally the Raimi version it does raise questions. He seems to be villainous but also knows that (a) Peter Parker is Spiderman... But in the film he only found that out just before he turned face and performed his Heroic Sacrifice.

It is theoretically possible that he was yanked out of the Raimiverse in between Peter revealing himself and rejecting the arms but that's an absurdly small window.

I'm presuming (if he is Raimi!Ock) that he's taken from his villainous period and finds out Spider-Man's ID some other way - possibly courtesy of the Goblin.

Edited by jakobitis on Aug 26th 2021 at 10:25:37 AM

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#132675: Aug 26th 2021 at 2:26:14 PM

They will probably not be the literal same versions, they'll be inspired by them.

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