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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#132276: Aug 22nd 2021 at 8:25:16 PM

Ego I think can be related to in ultimately his desire is to not be alone and find the meaning of life, but he becomes a villain in refusing to relate to those weaker than him. Going so far as to panic when he starts to love a human but staying with her would mean losing his power and immortality so he kills her.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 22nd 2021 at 8:25:38 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#132277: Aug 22nd 2021 at 8:26:20 PM

"And this kind of cascades into the film's whole message in a interesting way. "

I will said that part in itselft is also intersting if you see from killmonger point of view: as far he see it, wakanda forgot him and kill is dad for daring to do something and decide to throw him under the rug, so as far as he see it, wakanda decide to not play with is own rule because it suit them and them demand the foregeiner(to them) play along because is what they do.

No saying this perpective is right but is one that can be said and if anything add more ambiguity about it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#132278: Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:04:38 PM

@jouXIII

Just for fun.

Can you do an alternate one with (One Piece spoilers) Kaido (Sony) and Big Mom (Disney) doing Conquest Of The Sea at Luffy (the leaker), Law (the second phone), Kid (the third phone), and Killer (people re-posting the leak), with Zoro (the fanbase) blocking it?

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#132279: Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:09:34 PM

Thanos does have a point in that resource scarcity is a legitimate problem. It's just that his solution is totally insane. Even if you DO believe that overpopulation is the key, killing 50% of the population at random with no warning or time for civilizations to adapt is about the worst way to address it.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#132280: Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:19:34 PM

Yeah. I think ultimately, Thanos didn't just want to be right.

He just wanted to kill a fuck ton of people.

Maybe he went full misanthrope, or maybe he thought it was funny deep down, but whatever the case, I think he just wanted to be that guy who killed everybody.....

....unless you take What If? into account. Then he really did give a shit. He just chose a really bad way to do it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#132281: Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:29:54 PM

The What If? situation is a bit too comical to take seriously, in my opinion.

"He got booed at a town hall meeting and never recovered" is honestly as close a reduction as you're gonna get. It's not enough to save the universe, he also needs to save it in a way that validates his dumb old idea.

It's why when Endgame Thanos learned his plan is doomed to failure because of the surviving half, he doubled down (literally) and decided the plan works if he just kills everyone and does a clean reinstallation of the universe's OS. Which hilariously enough does at least make more sense than semicide.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#132282: Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:36:36 PM

[up]To be fair the older Thanos was content. It's the Endgame Thanos that got that realization.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#132283: Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:40:20 PM

My take on why he's so insistent on the random 50% thing is that he thinks it makes it more morally acceptable. That because it's "fair" and for the greater good it's totally okay for him to commit the biggest genocide ever.

Edited by FGHIK on Aug 22nd 2021 at 12:53:24 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#132284: Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:45:36 PM

[up][up]Older Thanos didn't know the Avengers would literally travel through time just to undo it. He died believing he had won for all eternity and they'd eventually give up because there's no possible way to fix what he did.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132285: Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:48:34 PM

[up][up] As he puts it, it’s “efficient” and random.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#132286: Aug 22nd 2021 at 10:00:12 PM

Old leak that matches the SM FFH unfinished trailer.

Old leak for What If that matches the actual first two episodes. Only the beginning of each episode is described, so not that spoilery.

PS Heroes screwing up seems to be a major trend in Phase 4. We've seen Wanda do it. We've seen Sylvie do it. Now it's Strange's and Peter Parker's turn smile

There is no Tony Stark to do it single-handedly any longer, so now everyone has to help with filling in the spot.

Edit: [down] That's the most accurate description of Thanos I've seen.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 22nd 2021 at 9:13:10 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132287: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:03:33 PM

Ultimately, what Thanos wanted was simple validation. He wanted people to be grateful to him and to say he was right.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#132288: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:22:12 PM

Both versions of Thanos are motivated by wanting love basically.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#132289: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:28:07 PM

I wouldn't call that love at all. If he wanted love, he wouldn't yank Gamora off the cliff. Recognition. Gratitude. To prove that he is right, that he is worthy, if you will. It is ultimately very selfish.

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#132290: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:30:52 PM

Also “old” Thanos killed 99% of all the dwarves and maimed the last one just to be a dick, so underneath he was always bearing spite.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132291: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:32:30 PM

Thanos was basically trying to prove himself right to everyone on Titan who called him "mad".

Disgusted, but not surprised
Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#132292: Aug 22nd 2021 at 11:46:39 PM

It is also ironic because he said to the Avengers something along the lines of "you couldn't live with your failure so you came back to me to fix it." In fact, he is the one who couldn't live with his failure of other Titans rejecting his plan.

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#132293: Aug 23rd 2021 at 12:03:48 AM

One has to wonder how T'Challa managed to get through to Thanos with that emotional roadblock...

Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#132294: Aug 23rd 2021 at 12:09:20 AM

[up] "I like your plan, except it sucks. So let me do the plan, and that way, it might be really good."

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132295: Aug 23rd 2021 at 12:13:14 AM

"I like the cut of your G homes."

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 23rd 2021 at 12:13:21 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#132296: Aug 23rd 2021 at 12:24:31 AM

[up][up][up] He showed Thanos Black Panther's box office and explained "This means I never fail."

My various fanfics.
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#132297: Aug 23rd 2021 at 1:39:14 AM

[up][lol][lol]

But it was probably "really" less that "Your plan sucks and so do you" than "I see your point but I think this plan is even better" and winning him over through pure T'challarisma.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#132298: Aug 23rd 2021 at 3:03:50 AM

Holy potato quality Batman, a really patchy version of the No Way Home trailer leaked and it's not a fake for once, with unfinished CGI too. Looks like it'll Adapt "One Moment In Time" instead of "One More Day", and the money shot at the end of the trailer is Doc Ock

Photos have also leaked on twitter highlighting Molina, Foxx, and Da Foe

Edited by Zarius on Aug 23rd 2021 at 3:04:21 AM

Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#132299: Aug 23rd 2021 at 3:31:28 AM

I posted a link to the older leak that matches the trailer above. It mostly describes the first act, with little info beyond it. Copying it here.

    Spoilers for FFH 
The movie opens immediately after the events of Spider-Man Far From Home. We pick up with a focus on a sign that says West 33rd Street, which is located opposite Pennsylvania station. This is where Peter was at during the post-credits scene of the prior movie. He jumps down to talk to MJ and is immediately swarmed by the public who are all recording him on their phones and posting out his reaction. This makes him panic and he grabs MJ before swinging through the city. This includes traveling past time square which has his face apparently blown up on the central screen.

Not long after this Peter hands himself in and he's joined at the station by MJ, Ned, and also Flash. Flash is a big fan of Spider-man, but he hated Peter and used to bully him at school. However realizing that he's a good guy he joins his side, and interestingly the actor has now dyed his hair bleach blonde which lines up more with his comic book counterpart. Peter even allows himself to be put in one handcuff whilst the other one is tied to an interrogation room table. He could clearly snap out of this but he's meant to do it so that the officers feel safe similar to how Supes did it in Man Of Steel.

Soon enough people quickly realize that the Mysterio group doctored the footage with spider man “murdering” Quentin Beck. Peter’s name is cleared, however, he now has to live with the world knowing that he is spider-man. He goes back to school and gets surrounded at school by his classmates. He's constantly in the public eye.

There's a really touching scene where Peter and MJ sit on a rooftop away from the world, and Peter says that he just wants to stay up there forever. During this, Mj reads a newspaper that says spider-man has the power to hypnotize females (which apparently foreshadows something important)

The pair are absolutely consumed by the new fan fame. There's meant to be a lot of scenes early on that have them reading their phones, obsessing over it. The movie takes place across a number of seasons, and it's supposed to range from Summer, through Autumn, and all the way up to Winter (which we know from some behind the scenes videos on the film)

Now it's during Autumn, namely Halloween, that Peter gets a certain idea after looking at a witch decoration. He seeks Doctor Strange for his help on the whole identity debacle. We then transition to the Sanctum Sanctorum, and we find it pretty run down and covered in snow. This is because of the snap, and Bruce Banner smashing through the roof (funko pop toys line up with this)

Strange can be found shoveling snow and trying to clear the place out. Peter asks Strange if it's possible to go back in time and change things, but as we know this would only create a bigger mess. Going back in time would create a branched reality, rather than changing the results of what really happened. This portion of the movie pulls from the “One More Day” storyline. From what Heavy Spoilers has been told privately, the movie is pulling heavily from the comic.

Although Mephisto doesn't show up in this film, we get a similar story with Strange. Strange decides to do a spell that will erase the knowledge from everyone's mind that Peter is spider-man. Wong warns him of the dangers of this spell, and Strange tells him that “he won't do it”, but then he gives Peter a cheeky wink. Wong then packs his bags, and he goes off to fight the abomination in Shang Chi which leaves Strange by himself to cast the spell.

This is an odd detail, but Heavy Spoilers says that Strange will have a coffee mug that says “Oh for fox sake”. His source told him this specifically to prove that this leak is in fact true. If we see this coffee mug in the movie, it’ll prove that his source wasn't lying.

From here Peter and Strange go to the basement of the Sanctum, and Strange pulls a strand from Peter’s hair to create the spell (similar to what he did to Thor in Ragnarok. He then casts Peter’s secret identity out of the world to make sure that everyone forgets he is spider-man. This ends up going wrong because Peter interrupts him, and asks if he can complete in such a way that Aunt May, Ned, and MJ still remember. This is because Mj and Peter have a bit of back and forth about how difficult it was to keep it from her. Peter doesn't want to go through that again, but this, in turn, cracks the multiverse wide open and we get the sinister six coming through this tear in reality. The lineup is Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Electro, Lizard, Sandman, and Rhino The six villains attack New York and both Stange and Peter have to round them up. The only one they don't capture is Green goblin

Goblin decides to hang back whilst the others go ahead. Strange then put them in a prison which Peter doesn't know about, and Goblin goes to visit them. Here he finds out that the last thing they all remember is the spider-man of their earth being there when they died. Goblin can't break them out because there's a magical cube that Strange put in place to stop them from doing so. Because of this, Goblin goes to Peter for help. He tells him that the Peter of their earth killed them. He also says that if they go back, they'll face their death so there's no way home.

Now Peter feels super guilty about this, and he steals the cube which leads to Strange chasing him across the city in the mirror dimension. There's apparently a moment where the city collapses in on itself, similar to how it did in the chase in Strange's solar movie. He uses his cape to capture Peter. Strange pushes out his astral form and manages to get the cube but it's too late. The villains escape again. The recent set photo for reshoots lines up with this.

According to Heavy Spoiler’s source, the major leaks we've heard with Osborn stealing an Arc reactor, and positioning it above the Statue of Liberty is true. The Statue of Liberty now carries a giant Captain America shield. They also said there is going to be a big character death, but it’s unknown so far since they've filmed several different endings. They're leaning into it being May, but it's still indefinite.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 23rd 2021 at 1:42:18 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#132300: Aug 23rd 2021 at 3:39:17 AM

That potential OMIT adaptation is making me sick. But at least seeing Green Goblin and Doc Ock again will be fun.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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