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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#132051: Aug 20th 2021 at 5:59:34 PM

Someone in I think the What If? thread suggested putting Quill through something similar to Annihilation to make him act more like his comic self.

I agree. Grind him down, traumatize him even worse than everything that's already happened (death of his mom, dad being an asshole, death of that dad, death of his adopted dad, death of Gamora). Make him the current Jar-Jar Binks of Star Wars canon (for the uninitiated, Jar Jar is living on the streets of Naboo forced to act as a clown because everyone hates him for letting the empire be a thing), and then, unlike Jar-Jar, build him back up into something better and different. Make him suffer from the thought of his old self or even being like his old self.

Turn him into something worthwhile, even if it's done in a cruel way. Satisfy those who hate him, and those who like him and want to be better.

One Strip! One Strip!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#132052: Aug 20th 2021 at 5:59:49 PM

I already expressed this criticism since soon after Civil War came out, but it does seem like Phase 3 was deliberately set up so that the events of Civil War, as grandiose as they pushed it, wouldn't actually have the kinds of tangible consequences it ought to. None of the films on the original slate touch upon anything that would be meaningfully affected by the Avengers' dissolutionnote . Pretty much everything Team Stark and Team Cap got up to in between Civil War and Infinity War, and whatever the hell is up with the deliberately vague Accords, which were only ever meant to have as much definition as is necessary to make them a Conflict Ball, is left a blank slate, and is part of why their resolutions in IW/EG feel so unsatisfactory.

Of the two movies that were inserted afterwards, Spider-Man Homecoming does a little to answer what happened to Tony afterwards and some things about his mental state and his relationship with Pepper, but otherwise doesn't delve into the overarching conflict aside of a joke about Cap being a war criminal now. Ant-Man and the Wasp is probably the film that addresses it the best out of the Phase 3 films, but Scott has always been set pretty far apart from the other Avengers to begin with.

Some of it is a result of fundamental limitations of movies as a medium (particularly things like actor availability, and the importance of cutting down on Continuity Lock-Out for the sake of storytelling coherence), but it does result in some rather large gaps in narrative and character arcs and worldbuilding for those who do choose to follow along.

Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 20th 2021 at 9:08:53 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#132053: Aug 20th 2021 at 6:04:31 PM

And Black Widow the not-Phase-3 film has the Accords only matter in that Ross is pursuing Nat, but she always escapes him with little effort.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132054: Aug 20th 2021 at 6:18:15 PM

[up][up][up] The knowledge that a Nova project appears to be in the works does lend to the potential of an Annihilation adaptation.

Especially since its a popular storyline as well as Nova and Star Lord in the source material being big players in it, to the point of becoming war buddies afterwards.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#132055: Aug 20th 2021 at 6:36:05 PM

[up][up][up][up]I think you're vastly overstating how many people hate Star-Lord.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#132056: Aug 20th 2021 at 6:51:20 PM

Pretty much everything Team Stark and Team Cap got up to in between Civil War and Infinity War, and whatever the hell is up with the deliberately vague Accords, which were only ever meant to have as much definition as is necessary to make them a Conflict Ball, is left a blank slate, and is part of why their resolutions in IW/EG feel so unsatisfactory.

You know, I actually think it's funny that the characters who were on the side of the Accords in Civil War had all broken them by Infinity War. Rhodey came around during his recovery from being shot down, and went rogue when Ross ordered him to arrest the Secret Avengers. Natasha aided Team Cap after doing the events of her solo film. T'Challa only wanted to kill Bucky, and when he realized he was wrong, immediately changed sides. Vision was regularly meeting up with Wanda for sexy times and turning off his Accords-mandated tracker. And so on and so forth.

Okey Dokey!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#132057: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:21:31 PM

[up][up]

Meh. Even if I do, beat him down anyway. Even before Infinity War/Endgame, Quill was being put through the emotional wringer. Just go all in with it.

Wreck him. Wreck him until nothing can be wrecked.

One Strip! One Strip!
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#132058: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:24:31 PM

Again, I dont think Gunn cares anything about the vocal minority whining about Quill.

So breaking him down further to assuage the feelings of a small section of viewers is probably not on his agenda.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#132059: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:31:13 PM

I mean this is not new, look Ao U and Civil war: they show new member of a new team of falcon, wanda, vision and.....they fight each other the next movie, MCU have this issue of setting new status quo they undone the next time.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132060: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:32:04 PM

I'm more curious if Star Lord will finally stop acting like a frat bro idiot.

I mean hes still played by Chris Pratt but hey anything's possible.

[up] Ah just like comics.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 20th 2021 at 7:32:27 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#132061: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:35:11 PM

I thought we knew the plot of Guardians 3 was going to be focused on Rocket and his wife? I remember Gunn saying something about that.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#132062: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:36:42 PM

Its funny in a way.

Quill was recharacterized in Bendis' Guardians of the Galaxy to be kind of a doofus in anticipation of the movie. Originally he was pragmatic grizzled space vet, traumatized for failing to be a space messiah and for his part in Ultron taking over the Kree.

Writers have slowly chipped away at the doofus, suggesting that the behavior was his way of coping with the trauma of the dumb thing that happened at the end of Thanos Imperative on top of all the other traumas. And he started being a more serious character again. Then Ewing dunked him into an alternate universe for a few hundred years to get him all the way back to being a spacey space messiah type.

But what I'm getting at is if Marvel adapted Annihilation for the MCU to make Quill a more serious character, it'd be hilarious from that sense. Like the MCU and the comics chasing each others tails

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#132063: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:39:30 PM

As far as I know Gunn had mentioned Guardians 3 would focus a bit more on Rocket but not to the point of making him the main character.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132064: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:41:36 PM

I kinda hope we get less Rocket considering he’s already the most focused on Guardian.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#132065: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:43:20 PM

Yeah, Rocket was the one member of the original Guardians left after Thanos did the Snap. Time to balance things out.

Okey Dokey!
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#132066: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:46:29 PM

Across the 2 guardians movies, Rocket has less than 40 minutes of screen time and Quill has over 80.

Saying Rocket is the most focused guardian is simply, factually wrong.

Edited by ArthurEld on May 2nd 2022 at 1:09:12 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#132067: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:50:14 PM

He got some good focus in gotg 2 but so did Quill

Its clearly time for Drax and Mantis to shine.

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 20th 2021 at 10:50:37 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#132069: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:57:27 PM

He was there the whole time. He was just standing incredibly still.

Okey Dokey!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132070: Aug 20th 2021 at 7:58:43 PM

…….. I just now realized Bautista and John Cena both have invisibility related memes.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#132072: Aug 20th 2021 at 8:27:27 PM

Okay, out of curiosity, I found this breakdown of screentime for each of the MCU characters by film. In the first Guardians movie, Quill has the most screentime with around 46 minutes, while Rocket is in third with 19 minutes. Gamora has more than him, having about 31 minutes.

In Vol 2, it's the same deal. Quill is in first with 35 minutes of screentime, Gamora is in second with 24, and Rocket is in third with 19. In Infinity War, it's switched up as Gamora has 20 minutes of screentime (making her just behind Thanos and second overall), Quill has 10 minutes, and Rocket has six. Endgame is the only film where Rocket has more screentime than Quill, having eight minutes of screentime compared to Quill's three.

Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#132073: Aug 21st 2021 at 1:13:42 AM

New RockStars released their breakdown of the Eternals trailer. Spoilers galore. If you are not subscribed to them and are into MCU theories and lore, I can't recommend them enough.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 21st 2021 at 12:45:51 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
Ohmknight _(o)_ from the End Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
_(o)_
#132074: Aug 21st 2021 at 1:26:57 AM

[up]They are hardworkers. I can never know how they can analyse so much in the MCU shows.

The Final Name
Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#132075: Aug 21st 2021 at 1:31:49 AM

By the way, I missed the fact that Ramin Djawadi wrote music for the Eternals. He wrote music for my two favourite TV shows, Game of Thrones and Westworld, and he is very, very good. Now I'm hyped just for the soundtrack alone.

Marvel seem to have realised they need to improve music in Phase 4.

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.

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