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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132001: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:11:23 AM

He's basically Ryan Reynolds but sans redeeming qualities as an actor.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#132002: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:12:48 AM

[up]inb4 Deadpool's next MCU appearance has him dunking on Peter Quill as he hangs with the Guardians

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#132003: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:13:22 AM

Hating on the actor and the character is taking a grudge a wee bit too far,don't you think?

(I'm mostly joking,half serious)

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#132004: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:14:54 AM

[up]This is mostly about Chris Pratt's acting chops and not him as a human being (though I've got issues with him on that front too).

Disgusted, but not surprised
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#132005: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:17:41 AM

What I hate about the Iron Fist and Inhumans bashing online is that people don't want the characters fixed, they want them erased. A very popular theory is to make Shang-Chi the Iron Fist and retire Danny Rand, arguing that keeping Danny white perpetuates Mighty Whitey and making him Asian perpetuates All Asians Know Martial Arts. Meanwhile people want the entire Inhumans concept Exiled from Continuity in response to the last 10 years of them being the Creator's Pet, arguing that it's too tainted and that it's just better doing all of it with mutants anyway (as if that corner isn't so fucking big already).

I am far and away a bigger fan of actually fixing them and making them viable and I don't see what is actually stopping them from being made such.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132006: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:17:43 AM

I can’t really stand the portrayal of the character.

Like speaking of Reynolds, his Guy from Free Guy is cute and charming where by contrast Pratt’s Star-Lord is more of a witless clown.

The character doesn’t really have dignity, he’s just a nitwit.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#132007: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:28:00 AM

If they bring back Danny Rand they'll probably recast the character.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 20th 2021 at 7:36:49 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#132008: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:32:25 AM

[up]x3 - Iron Fist can be a fine character, but you do probably need to scrap everything Finn Jones did and start over...without Finn Jones. Conversely, the Inhumans hate is mostly stemming from X-Men fans who never bought into the forced push of the former and just want their X-Men back.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#132009: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:44:12 AM

I'm only vaguely aware of the stuff going on with Pratt in real life (something about him being connected to a cult), so I don't take that into account when I talk about Quill.

Yeah, he's kind of an idiot. I can't deny that, but he did still bring the guardians together: he talked Rocket, Gamora and Groot into teaming up to get paid, talked Drax out of killing Gamora, which lead to his assistance during the break out, and he was the one who convinced them all to save Xandar (though only after he realized Gamora was right about the stone, so she deserves a bit more credit on that one). He's also the one who talked Yondu into assisting with that fight against Ronan on Xandar, which probably helped a lot.

And of course, in 2 he saved not just one planet, but multiple ones when he stopped his dad.

Like, there's something there that could be so much more if he could just get over himself. Hell, the plan he botched in Infinity War was apparently one HE came up with. Quill's a massive double edged sword. And believe me, I'm well aware of what a dumbfuck he is. It was all I could think about after Infinity War, and I (initially) loved how Endgame treated him.

But now I want them to fix him. To push him away from that. To not render his better moments moot. Because it's too easy to just go this guy sucks, fuck him and then throw them away, and I'm afraid that's an attitude that could become too prevalent. A character becomes unpopular, so they just throw them out. It's happened to a lot of characters, some deserving of it, some not. My deal is, if it can happen to someone you don't care about, it can happen to someone you do. If the writers aren't willing to work with characters who people don't like, then it'll be too easy to abandon others eventually.

So fix him. Make the effort. That's my stance.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#132010: Aug 20th 2021 at 9:57:03 AM

The backlash to the Inhumans push annoys me more then the push did

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#132011: Aug 20th 2021 at 10:02:40 AM

I agree with the criticisms of Star-Lord as coming off very uncharismatic, and have felt this way about him before the whole Hillsong controversy and independently of my thoughts on Chris Pratt as a person/actor (which if you had to ask me point blank, my answer is "I don't").

Pratt was charming enough as Andy in Parks and Recreation, and some of the funnier lines in the show were good improv on his part, but it helped that Andy was not the main character and that he was surrounded by an ensemble cast to better counter his manchild tendencies. As Quill he just gives off an air of being the bad kind of frat bro. I understand that some of that is the point, so he has a place to grow from, but the issue is that it makes him an Unsympathetic Comedy Protagonist in a movie that's not the kind of genre to balance its cast and story around it properly, so it just makes him the regular kind of unsympathetic.

The way to deal with this I'd argue is to make him actually mature farther than he has, but since regular audiences find said frat bro persona part of his appeal, I don't have high hopes of that happening.

Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 20th 2021 at 1:03:26 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132012: Aug 20th 2021 at 10:03:55 AM

[up][up][up] See the thing is Pratt's acting is why the character comes across as unlikable moron.

Its the way he plays the character, how he acts, he makes Quill come across as a gigantic douchebag. Which is worsened by the fact even in the Guardians movies he was never really portrayed as particularly skilled so he was effectively coasting off protagonist privilege to become the undeserved leader of the Guardians.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 20th 2021 at 10:04:52 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GeneralGigan Godzilla from A New Empire Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Godzilla
#132013: Aug 20th 2021 at 10:44:01 AM

[up]x3 - Iron Fist can be a fine character, but you do probably need to scrap everything Finn Jones did and start over...without Finn Jones. Conversely, the Inhumans hate is mostly stemming from X-Men fans who never bought into the forced push of the former and just want their X-Men back.

Iron Fist has essentially found himself in a ditch where, no matter what happens or how Marvel Studios adapts him, there will be a group that’ll get outraged at the fact he’s here.

As for the Inhumans… yeah, I can totally see them making Kamala a Mutant and giving the Inhumans the Adapted Out treatment, no questions asked.

SKREEEEEEEONK!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#132014: Aug 20th 2021 at 10:57:44 AM

Kamala will be the only inhuman they acknowledge at first,they'll sloooowly hint at the others with nudge nudge wink wink but otherwise make the process long and drawn out

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#132015: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:10:46 AM

It helps that being an inhuman isnt really important to the core of Kamala's concept.

I'm not in favor of making her a mutant just because, but the source of her powers isnt really a big part of her character.

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#132016: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:22:39 AM

Wasn't ike perlmutter the brains behind the inhumans' push and mutantkind's burial? Because I get the feeling that the hate inhumans get is partly perlmutter hate bleeding off to them.

Edited by KRider on Aug 20th 2021 at 11:23:59 AM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132017: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:24:12 AM

Yes he tried to replace the X-Men with the Inhumans and was responsible for the entire push including the maligned show.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#132018: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:27:01 AM

[up] Got it. And considering perlmutter hated the idea of female and minority-led superhero films (he kept trying to prevent Black Widow from getting her own movie if I recall), inhumans are looking like they have the bad luck of being associated w/ him.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#132019: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:27:33 AM

yeah, I can totally see them making Kamala a Mutant

Kamala is debuting first, so i don't know if they'd make her the first mutant.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 20th 2021 at 3:14:57 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132020: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:30:40 AM

[up][up] It prolly doesn't help that the Inhumans are kind of eugenicists with their own slave culture.

I mean I know people give Wakanda crap for being like an ethnostate or something, but Attilan is pretty much every bad thing people label Wakanda and more.

Its not like T'Challa has slaves.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 20th 2021 at 11:31:11 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#132021: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:32:27 AM

That's on the Royal family, which probably won't show up.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 20th 2021 at 2:48:23 PM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#132022: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:52:42 AM

I doubt they'll make Kamala an Inhuman... but I don't think they'll have her be a mutant either. I'm assuming some other outside source will end up giving her powers, like an experimental gas leaking out somewhere or something like that.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#132023: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:55:45 AM

Chances are they might just make her related to the Kree considering she's set to star in Marvels.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#132024: Aug 20th 2021 at 11:58:05 AM

What a fun coincidence, the Inhumans are tied to the Kree

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#132025: Aug 20th 2021 at 12:02:01 PM

Frankly, the better question is: why the hell is this same conversation repeated every few weeks, with the same people discussing it, and with the same conclusion reached every time?


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