TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#131801: Aug 18th 2021 at 3:53:16 PM

Uh depends on the parts of the Us. Some are doing fine, others are not great at the moment pandemic wise. So I would be way too early to say things are even returning to normal for the entire country.

As a guy who frequents Reddit Covid 19 for updates (the Reddit wiki is really informative as the mods ensure that disinformation isn't spread through their ).

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#131802: Aug 18th 2021 at 3:54:48 PM

Yeah, speaking as someone in the South, it's in the pits rn.

I'm thinking mine might be Black Adam (July 2022), though graded against the DC box office/ratings curve and not the Marvel one. Not an established film character (though one with a connection-ish to a previously established one), not an A-list comic character, but played by an actor the moviegoing public tends to show up for.

Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 18th 2021 at 5:55:47 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131803: Aug 18th 2021 at 4:03:12 PM

Totally unrelated but I just found out those black swords Hela uses are called necroswords.

And Gorr the God Butcher's weapon is a necrosword.

Since Knull would be under Sony right now, maybe they might have Hela be the source of Gorr's powers for Thor 4. Maybe he comes across her remnants during the time-skip and winds up being infected by her powers or something.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#131805: Aug 18th 2021 at 4:07:27 PM

It was said that Hela took a lot from Gorr, wasn't it?

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131806: Aug 18th 2021 at 4:10:52 PM

Interestingly her powers does come across as sorta diluted Gorr.

She only does "summon black spikes", Gorr is the whole "My Power is the Void!" where he can manipulate shadows, form it into any weapon he pleases, and even use it to conjure his own army in the form of the Black Beserkers.

Which is an amusing thought. IF Gorr gets his powers from Hela, he may use em better than Hela ever apparently did.

[up][up] And yeah they are definitely cutting out Knull from Gorr's backstory.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 18th 2021 at 4:13:16 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#131807: Aug 18th 2021 at 4:30:44 PM

Had the same theory a while ago. Still think it's pretty likely.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131808: Aug 18th 2021 at 4:55:21 PM

Don't think it was linked here before but box office analyst Charlie Jatinder is predicting $60m+ opening weekend. If true it'd be the second-best start after Black Widow.

Yeah it's just one guy's opinion but it should be kept in mind that the initial $35-$55m prediction basically amounts to analysts trying to read tea leaves on audience behavior (and maybe slightly low-balling it in the process) while Jatinder's working off day-one pre-sale data, which were already second behind BW's. And pre-sales were in my reads around a notable indicator that early predictions for Free Guy were too cynically low.

I'm going to keep bringing up FG like a jackass because I honestly think it's the best barometer for Shang-Chi's potential success: both have the same release pattern, the time gap is not that big accounting for how relatively stable things are being in the US (bad but not worsening, fingers crossed), and FG is doing really solidly with orders of magnitude less hype behind it. Though of course the big question is how FG does this weekend and the next, whether it actually holds or plummets like everything else.

Edited by Watchtower on Aug 18th 2021 at 7:55:55 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131809: Aug 18th 2021 at 5:03:39 PM

Its interesting to think about the potential differences between Hela and Gorr to justify their power differences if they do turn out to be related.

Hela comes from a privileged position as a God with her own army. Presumably she functioned as Odin's wrecking ball, where he a God of Knowledge would dictate their tactics and Hela would execute them. She was such a raging whirlwind of death that she rarely came across a threat that she couldn't just stab to death.

Gorr though starts from a low position as a mortal and wants to punch way up. So logically he would need to figure out all the ins and outs of his new powers if he wants to kill all the Gods. Its also not just killing, Gorr wants to torture them too and would want to figure out how the powers would enable him to be the best torturer ever.

Its logical to believe that Hela really never dug deep into the actual capabilities of her powers and was just perfectly content with making black spikes. Gorr though actually wants to learn all the technical aspects so he knows every which way to kill Gods.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#131810: Aug 18th 2021 at 5:34:50 PM

Superhero fatigue is the phantom that is going to loom over all these films, for better or for worse. Might be why so many studios are suddenly turning to manga for genre adaptations all of a sudden, they feel the superhero market has ran its course for the immediate future.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131811: Aug 18th 2021 at 5:38:30 PM

Oh yeah like thats worked out well for them before. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#131813: Aug 18th 2021 at 7:17:05 PM

[up][up][up] Westerns did fall off a cliff though...

Just Makima.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131814: Aug 18th 2021 at 7:31:05 PM

I think Marvel's aware of that which is why making movies in more varying genres.

Shang is a send-up to kung-fu cineme while Eternals is...... okay I'm not sure what it is but its certainly not looking to be an average superhero flick.

Even from what they already released Winter Falcon and Black Widow were the most boilerplate products, with Wanda Vision and Loki being more unique treks.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GeneralGigan Godzilla from A New Empire Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Godzilla
#131815: Aug 18th 2021 at 7:55:26 PM

[up] I personally see it from a… different perspective.

The idea of “person in costume fights evil” is such a barebones concept that it can be overlapped into basically any other genre or setting without much effort.

In fact, it’s easier to say that Superheroes are less of a genre and more of a character type that forms a meta-genre consuming everything, which is what allowed them to take over Hollywood.

SKREEEEEEEONK!
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131816: Aug 18th 2021 at 8:07:58 PM

[up][up] Eternals is quite literally Oscar Bait. They were lucky to attract Chloé Zhao as early as they did and everything points to them letting her make the movie she wants. The result is their take on an indie arthouse film, the timing even more apropos now that Zhao actually has fresh-hot Oscars to her name.

TFATWS and BW were definitely more standard though they instead stand out more for explicit theming - the former with its commentary on the black American experience and the latter with the Red Room as an allegory for systemic misogyny.

Edited by Watchtower on Aug 18th 2021 at 11:08:34 AM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#131817: Aug 18th 2021 at 8:13:27 PM

Also I would say Hollywood turning to manga has significantly less to do with superhero fatigue and way more to do with the fact that nearly all the recognizable superhero IP is already locked up. Netflix just got burned big time paying all that money for the Millarworld universe only to cancel Jupiter's Legacy after one season.

If you're trying to get in on the superhero market, just about the only options left are creating your own new properties (always a dicey prospect) or start buying up IP nobody has ever heard of and thus kind of defeats the purpose of buying it in the first place (something that so far no studio outside Marvel has proven consistently successful with).

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#131818: Aug 18th 2021 at 8:15:01 PM

Regardless, despite the laundry list of real world issues (The Delta variant first and foremost) Shang Chi is going to be the litmus test, and if it bombs, well, I don’t see another Asian led comic book movie for a very long time.

A lot is riding on this, unfairly so.

Edited by Beatman1 on Aug 18th 2021 at 11:16:38 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#131819: Aug 18th 2021 at 8:17:24 PM

I feel like the MCU has become such a war-machine it'll be pretty hard to kill it off entirely in a quick manner. I find it pretty doubtful Disney would just go "welp, wrap it up guys" after a single bomb in the MCU.

The western comparison is often raised and it's a fair one, but I think people also underestimate how long it took for the western to really die per see. While it was always somewhere in Hollywood, the Hollywood Western started picking up steam in the 1930s and had its golden age in the 1950s. In the 1960s the hollywood western started to slow down but we had the dominance of Spaghetti Westerns during the entire decade and the first half of the 1970's. The westerns only really died out for sure (as much as they did die out, given they still exist to this day) in the 1980s.

The era of prepoderance of the westerns was a fairly insane timespan (1930s-1970s would be my estimative, so about 40 years). The superhero film genre as we know today was basically born in Richard Donner's Superman (1978) and Tim Burton's Batman (1989), started to become a box office money-maker with X-Men (2000) and Spider-Man (2002), and only truly became the dominant force of Hollywood last decade with the MCU.

Of course there's no guarantee superhero cinema has to move at the same pace as westerns, but I think a little historical perspective is important. People sometimes talk as if westerns lasted like five years and then crashed and burned, when the genre was basically a fixture of western cinema for several decades. If the superhero is the "new western" you'd logically expect it to last at least one or two decades more.

Edited by Gaon on Aug 18th 2021 at 8:19:23 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
GeneralGigan Godzilla from A New Empire Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Godzilla
#131820: Aug 18th 2021 at 8:32:19 PM

[up] Their’s another thing to consider, Superhero films have largely been about establishing as big a franchise as humanly possible, Westerns were largely standalone.

My personal theory as to how long the Superhero genre will continue is based on other franchises ability to ride the bandwagon, if no-one gets a sequel, then it’s unlikely that the genre can continue in its current form.

SKREEEEEEEONK!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131821: Aug 18th 2021 at 9:17:50 PM

Also, with superhero stuff expanding onto the small screen as well as the big screen, there's more opportunity for other directors, writers and actors to really play with their characters and settings in an entirely different sandbox. Case in point with the aforementioned Disney+ shows. To my knowledge, Westerns were primarily limited to the big screen, which kinda limits the stories you can tell.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#131822: Aug 18th 2021 at 9:20:18 PM

[up]There was western shows, ether about cowboys like bonanza for example that last a lot and was well regarded.

In general marvel big thing is they have a quality of safe movies and somewhat risky ones, meaning at the worst they are boring and forgettable but not outright bad, so far marvel dosent have anything that crash their reputation or just turn into a laughtingstock.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#131823: Aug 18th 2021 at 9:20:37 PM

To my knowledge, Westerns were primarily limited to the big screen, which kinda limits the stories you can tell.

Nah, there were lots of western television series. Gunsmoke was one of the longest-running television shows of its time until The Simpsons surpassed it, I think.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131824: Aug 18th 2021 at 9:20:53 PM

It should be noted that The Boys and Invincible have both received critical acclaim and success.

And the CW shows are still chugging on and the fact that several shows are still doing despite widespread seasonal rot is an impressive enough achievement.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131825: Aug 18th 2021 at 9:38:18 PM

The superhero "genre" is also just conceptually infinitely more diverse than Westerns. Even within the MCU sandbox all of the heroes are so distinct from each other that they don't even feel the same to most people, and once you get out of it you can literally do whatever you want. There's only so many cowboy gunfights you can really do.

And yeah, the MCU machine is too well-oiled at this point. Say what you will about the formula and quality control but shit is too well-tuned to have any real stinkers - I've come to like Bob Chipman's likening of the Marvel "formula" to classic cocktails, and they have been doing better allowing more creative flourishes lately, and even when there are missteps they do enough right and plant enough seeds that people can trust them to march on ahead.


Total posts: 186,763
Top