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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#131776: Aug 18th 2021 at 11:25:38 AM

Whitman makes the best human hero for connection to the Eternals through his link to Sersei.

In the comics, as well as in this it seems, she is the one most appreciative of and connected to humanity. That's part of why she joined the Avengers in the comics, which is where she and Dane met.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#131777: Aug 18th 2021 at 11:25:50 AM

I keep thinking of other black knight,damn it Monty Python!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131778: Aug 18th 2021 at 11:26:26 AM

No, no

The Monty Python Black Knight has dignity

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131779: Aug 18th 2021 at 11:28:33 AM

Knight's a pretty huge wild card considering we know very little about him aside from being a human and a superhero.

It will be interesting to see how he's involved with the wider story. Maybe he's the one who manages to prevent the Eternals from being destroyed.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Krory Since: Aug, 2012
#131780: Aug 18th 2021 at 12:14:37 PM

I suspect his magic sword that can cut through anything might play into the plot somehow.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131782: Aug 18th 2021 at 12:52:47 PM

They announced the movie before ensuring that Mackie would actually be in it?

Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#131784: Aug 18th 2021 at 12:56:32 PM

I don't want to disappoint all of you, but it seems Kit Harrington is barely in the movie. He did not film that much for it. His character will probably be teased and used later in another project.

PS I added my Ikaris=Big Bad bet to WMG. Anyone else willing to participate in the guessing game?

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 18th 2021 at 10:59:54 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#131785: Aug 18th 2021 at 12:56:56 PM

I remember Mackie expressing the thought that if the show didn't succeed he would be at the risk of losing his job. Which seemed like a really strange situation to me, but is just indicative of the bizarre way with which Disney often treats its talent.

Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#131786: Aug 18th 2021 at 12:58:12 PM

Or Mackie is joking, which he does a lot. Like, really a lot.

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#131787: Aug 18th 2021 at 1:03:36 PM

Joking to mask his genuine fears maybe?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#131788: Aug 18th 2021 at 1:52:21 PM

Which seemed like a really strange situation to me, but is just indicative of the bizarre way with which Disney often treats its talent.

I feel it's not that different from the ways actors like Mackie, Sebastian Stan, Elizabeth Olsen, Brie Larson, etc. were often Acting in the Dark during their movies.

Okey Dokey!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#131789: Aug 18th 2021 at 1:54:33 PM

He does joke a lot, but his concern about not doing a good job in FAWS seemed to be a legitimate concern, as an earnest indication of his work ethic and commitment to giving a good performance.

Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 18th 2021 at 4:54:38 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131790: Aug 18th 2021 at 1:55:21 PM

Say what you will about Winter Falcon, but Mackie sure acted his ass off.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#131791: Aug 18th 2021 at 2:00:10 PM

Aside from a few instances, the true power of the MCU lies in its casting and its acting. Which is why it's frustrating to see them so often treated like this, yet also an indication of just how talented they are that they can still give fantastic performances even when Acting in the Dark.

Krory Since: Aug, 2012
#131792: Aug 18th 2021 at 2:02:23 PM

They have a lot of practice. A ton of actors have admitted that in the age of greenscreens and CGI, they legitimately don't know if the movie they're in will be good or not, or if their acting choices even make sense, as they often don't know what the set looks like, their props look like, or even what their co-stars will look like.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#131793: Aug 18th 2021 at 2:43:23 PM

Yep. They're talented in that, when given next to no context, only being informed of things right before filming, or outright being given falsified scripts to work off of, they still give powerhouse performances. Sebastian Stan's acting during Bucky's goodbye scene with Steve in Endgame is so good for something he had less than an hour to prepare for. Or Elizabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany's acting in Infinity War when Wanda kills Vision, something they had to pretty much improvise on the spot.note 

In general, I find it kinda insane the lengths directors and studios have gone these days when it comes to protecting spoilers (this isn't an MCU-exclusive thing). I get it, they don't want their product spoiled, but...seriously, guys, trust your actors enough to let them have a general idea of what's going on in a scene (I'm looking at cases like how Anthony Mackie didn't even know about his Ant-Man cameo until he got the paycheck for it, Brie Larson not knowing whether she was filming Captain Marvel or Endgame at times, or Gwyneth Paltrow on record saying she doesn't even know which movies she's in).

Edited by dmcreif on Aug 18th 2021 at 5:44:50 AM

Okey Dokey!
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#131794: Aug 18th 2021 at 2:48:30 PM

I must say I agree, and I hope we can get some stronger pushback going against that sort of thing. I get trying to protect to keep spoilers from getting out, but getting the strongest film you can is far more important.

I imagine that they're worried about leaks impacting their profit margins, but is there any evidence that this is the case?

Oh God! Natural light!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#131795: Aug 18th 2021 at 2:55:05 PM

It does help that a lot of the actors have genuine enthusiasm for the characters they play, to the point that they continue to think about the characters and continuously come up with backstories for them offset to inform their performances. I do applaud the casting directors for choosing the kinds of people who are clearly Doing It for the Art over those who come in just for a paycheck and don't put much effort in otherwise. But I do think these actors deserve to be allowed to actually flex those muscles to the farthest extent they can.

The last time the actors collectively spoke up against bullshit practices (comically measly salaries for appearances in billion-dollar blockbusters), they had RDJ as a juggernaut to rally behind. Not so sure what they can do now. I don't think they have any singular stars powerful enough to threaten to walk if Disney doesn't comply, not when Disney owns so much that they can easily replace them (and Mackie is unlikely to be that guy, as there seems to have been some kind of Sword of Damocles hanging over his head here).

[up] The best Marvel films are the ones whose twists come with a high level of Rewatch Bonus and thus their spoiling only enhances the film (e.g. TWS, Black Panther), or ones for which spoilers are mostly inconsequential (Thor Ragnarok, Ant-Man). The dedication to protecting one's film from getting spoiled tends to say more about the plots' lack of value outside of said twists.

Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 18th 2021 at 6:03:53 AM

Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#131796: Aug 18th 2021 at 3:16:46 PM

It should be noted that different actors have different levels of access to scripts and knowledge of the future of their characters, though. Cumberbatch and Hiddleston, for instance, both knew what will happen to their characters years in advance.

I wonder how the studio determines "trustworthiness".

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 18th 2021 at 1:18:13 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#131797: Aug 18th 2021 at 3:38:21 PM

Thinkpiece on 'Black Widow', 'The Suicide Squad', and 'Shang-Chi' about how following a combo of the pandemic + the streaming wars + upcoming slates of films being more B-list and C-list heroes, superhero box office might actually be fatigued, and Shang-Chi will be a health check.

"What Marvel did with the buildup to 'Avengers' is one of those things that is going to be very difficult to be repeated — even for Marvel," says Jeff Bock, industry analyst with Exhibitor Relations. He likens the MCU's 2021 feature slate of "Black Widow," "Shang-Chi" and "Eternals" to a kind of box office reset, sending the MCU back to its earliest days. "So, we have to think in terms of the expectations for 'Iron Man' or even 'Captain America' or 'Thor.'"

[...]

"You don't go from $133 million [for Black Widow] to $26 million [for the Suicide Squad] — there's other factors at play than the pandemic," Bock says. He points to title confusion, the film's R-rating and explicit violence, and — especially — a cast lacking any A-list DC characters (all due respect to Harley Quinn) as other major culprits. "I just think we've come to that saturation point where audiences are sort of tired of these superheroes films, especially if they're superheroes that they've never heard of."

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#131798: Aug 18th 2021 at 3:44:07 PM

Are we doing a superhero fatigue thing again?

Like the Disney plus shows for MCU we're all rating hits.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#131799: Aug 18th 2021 at 3:47:55 PM

The key difference is that the shows focused on established characters and were streaming releases by design; the piece is pointing out that Shang-Chi and Eternals are not, so there is a real possibility that audiences won't physically turn out for them (and how maybe that's ok).

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#131800: Aug 18th 2021 at 3:50:17 PM

I think it's possible but I also think it's too early to tell. The US is vaguely starting to ride out the pandemic, but a good chunk of the world (including some pretty big markets) is still knee-deep in it. Hard to check for it as a worldwide phenomenon.

My thinking for the "health barometer" of superhero box office would actually be Doc Strange II, by which point I'm expecting the pandemic to be more in control, but that's almost a year from now (what can I say, I don't have much faith in the world getting its shit together against COVID any time soon).

Edited by Gaon on Aug 18th 2021 at 3:50:52 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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