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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131701: Aug 14th 2021 at 2:01:20 PM

Well we're still about 2.5 months away. No Way Home is not that much further out and we don't even have a single trailer yet.

Disney in particular has this model right now where they go full-speed on marketing about a month before release. Everything's short-term now. We'll probably get another trailer within the next month, maybe at or after the release of Shang-Chi, and then they'll go whole-hog once October rolls around.

Edited by Watchtower on Aug 14th 2021 at 5:15:03 AM

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131702: Aug 14th 2021 at 2:26:19 PM

Fair enough. But only one trailer has been released for Eternals and Marvel hasn't revealed any more details about it. Shang-Chi on the other hand has had more marketing than Eternals.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#131703: Aug 14th 2021 at 3:24:48 PM

Literally the only member of the OG team unaccounted for is Hulkling and it would make perfect sense for him to be set up in Secret Invasion.

Speaking of Secret Invasion, Chloe "Quake" Bennett recently exited the live-action Powerpuff Girls show (that literally nobody asked for) due to scheduling conflicts with another project and some fanatics are taking that as evidence that she'll be back as Daisy in Secret Invasion.

Some people hook themselves onto the slimmest of hopes, am I right?

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 14th 2021 at 6:25:49 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#131704: Aug 14th 2021 at 3:48:16 PM

[up][up][up]No way that film is staying in December. I expect another move.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#131705: Aug 14th 2021 at 3:49:40 PM

[up]With Venom 2 being moved, that's increasingly likely, since Premium Access seems to only make people angrier.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131706: Aug 14th 2021 at 4:06:22 PM

[up][up][up]I've read rumors that not only could Daisy appear in Secret Invasion, but a slew of other characters, including Phil Coulson. My interest in that show is increasing exponentially...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131707: Aug 14th 2021 at 4:08:53 PM

Speaking of shows, I had a thought pop into my head regarding them. If Shang-Chi, Eternals, No Way Home, and Multiverse of Madness end up being unable to make back their money because of the pandemic, do you think Marvel will begin shifting the rest of their projects to the small screen? Their Disney+ shows have been immensely successful thus far, and it would be a way of continuing the MCU, even if it's not in a way they'd prefer...

Edited by MatthewWayne on Aug 14th 2021 at 4:09:33 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131708: Aug 14th 2021 at 4:45:08 PM

I don't think they're going to give up on film. They're still going to release movies and try to alter their approach, which means they won't come out on Disney+ until after their theatrical run is finished.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#131709: Aug 14th 2021 at 5:46:48 PM

I mean, the pandemic's still on-going. At worst, I can see Marvel scaling back their productions so they're not releasing three films per year. The MCU is still the golden goose for Disney, so they're gonna completely gut the film department because of outside factors like that.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Aug 14th 2021 at 8:47:12 AM

Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#131710: Aug 14th 2021 at 6:39:38 PM

[up][up][up] I'm pretty sure Sony won't let them release No Way Home until they are reasonably assured that it will be successful. And there is enough time before Doctor Strange 2 release for the pandemic to calm down (hopefully).

Shang-Chi and The Eternals are the ones at risk.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 14th 2021 at 4:44:48 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131711: Aug 14th 2021 at 7:16:06 PM

That's a good point. If the Pandemic keeps goings and Sony really won't let them pull a Black Widow, then we'll eventually hit a wall continuity wise since it's possible what happens in No Way Home could be vitally important to the future.

Who knows where things could go from there. Like, not too long ago, it genuinely looked like Sony was going to pull spider man out of the MCU despite him probably printing them money, and that was when there wasn't a global pandemic fucking everything over. It's still ridiculously easy to forget we should have watched Black Widow more than a year ago.

One Strip! One Strip!
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131712: Aug 14th 2021 at 7:30:51 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah, the biggest disadvantage that both films face is (1) They don't have well-known characters that viewers can recognize outside of the hardcore types that follow comics and (2) As I said, they don't the weirdness factor that helped Guardians of the Galaxy (2014) and Ant-Man in the box office.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131713: Aug 14th 2021 at 7:37:37 PM

At this point if No Way Home gets delayed then Multiverse of Madness is absolutely getting delayed in kind, which in turn potentially ripples to a whole bunch of other things. Production is too far along for them to shuffle things easily and they've committed pretty well to this Thematic Series, any sort of delay would no doubt kneecap the momentum they're trying to build. Plus it's currently slotted for the week before Christmas, that's just prime real estate. No movie studio's going to give that up that easily in general, but especially now that we now have effective COVID vaccines.

Free Guy overperforming suggests that theater-only runs are potentially a viable route right now and Disney immediately greenlighting a sequel suggests their expectations at least have been calibrated to pandemic standards. If things overall keep then I actually thing Shang-Chi could do decently well, all things considered. Eternals meanwhile is too far out, things change so rapidly from one week to the next that 2+ months out is frankly inconceivable.

In Sony's case Venom 2 only getting putted a couple weeks legit feels like a strategic move. The delay gives it a teeny bit more space for Delta to calm down while not being significant enough to shake the boat too much. Way I see it, they're doing everything they can right now to keep things as they are; there's arguably too much at stake for them to just willy-nilly punt their entire slate another 6 months.

Edited by Watchtower on Aug 14th 2021 at 10:38:00 AM

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131714: Aug 14th 2021 at 8:10:08 PM

[up][up][up] According to current box office projections, Shang-Chi will earn only $35-55 million dollars in its opening run. That is pretty low for any MCU movie aside from The Incredible Hulk and while it might not flop per se, neither will it be a billion dollar hit.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#131715: Aug 14th 2021 at 9:06:43 PM

I feel like it'll be on the lower end in terms of budget anyway.

The legend has returned.
Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#131717: Aug 15th 2021 at 3:42:05 AM

There is a discussion on whether What If characters (and any MCU variants) can be considered Alternate Selves in ATT. If anyone has an opinion on that, please reply there.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 15th 2021 at 1:44:20 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131718: Aug 15th 2021 at 12:08:40 PM

I said it in that thread, but I'm pretty sure variants can be considered Alternate Selves. I mean, if there's a definitive version of a character that you're following in a franchise, and then there's a contrasting version of that character you're also following that did different things or became a different person, then that variant should be considered an Alternate Self from the prime version of the character. Whether they meet or not is irrelevant in my eyes.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#131720: Aug 15th 2021 at 12:55:38 PM

Ask The Tropers

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#131721: Aug 15th 2021 at 1:57:39 PM

[up]X3: I agree as well. Ignoring the fact that two alternative selves meeting was never a requirement, The Watcher is an in-universe character who acknowledges that the characters in What-If aren't the same as their "Sacred Timeline" counterparts.

He served in the same role as any similar situation where the differences between two distinct versions of the same character are brought up.

Edited by XMenMutant22 on Aug 15th 2021 at 4:59:38 AM

Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#131722: Aug 15th 2021 at 2:16:59 PM

Please, reply in that thread, if you write it here, it does not count for the purpose of the ATT discussion.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 15th 2021 at 12:17:23 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131723: Aug 15th 2021 at 3:29:08 PM

Random bit but like the Wakanda campaign for that Avengers game is coming out and all I can think of is “When they gonna give Black Panther a game?”

No ambition with the execs I tell you.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#131724: Aug 16th 2021 at 7:52:07 PM

Kind of belated, but I just saw Black Widow (2021) and wanted to give my two cents:

The opening, particularly that montage of Red Room training is really harrowing.

Yelena is really entertaining (no surprise there).

I really liked Alexei and Milena, even though both of them (especially Milena) should be tried at the Hague.

I've been interested for a while in seeing the MCU do one of those Hero Antagonist characters who is the Captain Patriotic of an enemy country, so cool to see that done with Alexei. I find him an intriguing Evil Counterpart because besides being on the "bad guy" side, he's a weird combination of taking Steve's Military Maverick traits and his earnestness to the extreme while simultaneously lacking Steve's intelligence and believing My Country, Right or Wrong in a way that Steve never would.

And with Milena, she's definitely sort of a stock example of The Baroness (which makes sense because she's sort of modeled after pre-Heel–Face Turn Natasha in the comics), but what's intriguing is that she is warm and maternal and quite a nice person (all at odds with the norm for that trope/female villains), but she's also a Mad Doctor guilty of crimes against humanity. And the balance basically works because she's both the victim and perpetrator of atrocities.

On the complaints side of things:

It feels weird how the movie often seems to "remind" the audience that it's part of the MCU, and in particular, does a lot of Resolved Noodle Incident.

I don't really have a problem with the movie revealing what Budapest was all about, since that was to be expected, but I was a bit annoyed with how the movie essentially explained how Team Cap broke out of the Raft by having the break-ins/break-outs during the movie serve as a "test run". Yes, it's cool to show Natasha being the mastermind, by I think I would have preferred to just assume that the Avengers were just that good.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131725: Aug 16th 2021 at 9:52:07 PM

New scene of Shang.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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