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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131676: Aug 14th 2021 at 10:11:24 AM

[up][up][up][up] As always I'm very curious who they'll make to be Hulkling's Kree parent.

Like the whole the child uniter of both worlds would be a decent way to resolve the Kree/Skrull conflict so I think we can expect that if Teddy's appears he'll be a Kree/Skrull hybrid.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#131677: Aug 14th 2021 at 10:12:23 AM

Regarding fridging, Deadpool 2 still uses the trope, so being ironic about it doesn't make it any less problematic. It's like "ironically" stabbing someone to death. They're still dead.

I do like how Ryan Reynolds called himself out in his reaction video to the Free Guy trailer, which is a comedy gem.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 14th 2021 at 1:12:45 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131678: Aug 14th 2021 at 10:33:07 AM

Pretty much.

I believe they were somewhat parodying it as well, but it was still a fridging.

Even bringing her back at the end didn't exactly undo that they did it. Reynolds clearly knows that as well if he called himself out on it during the Free Guy trailer.

One Strip! One Strip!
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#131679: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:46:41 AM

I'd question whether it counts as a fridging if the character is brought back to life in the course of the same story.

If they're brought back to life in a later story, then, yeah, it's a fridging that someone decided to undo. But if death and resurrection happen in the course of a single movie, then I'm not really sure if it counts. They may have been killed, but they weren't killed off.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#131680: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:48:23 AM

If they're brought back to life in a later story, then, yeah, it's a fridging that someone decided to undo. But if death and resurrection happen in the course of a single movie, then I'm not really sure if it counts. They may have been killed, but they weren't killed off.

That would be a description of 2018 Gamora getting killed off, and us now continuing on with 2014 Gamora.

Okey Dokey!
Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#131681: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:51:47 AM

[up][up][up][up] I agree with that as well.

Meanwhile, the second largest MCU reddit (>500k subscribers) published the results of their recent huge poll.

Some highlights:

  • Most anticipated future project:
    • Spider-Man: No Way Home: 39%
    • Doctor Strange MoM: 26%
    • Eternals, Moon Knight, Hawkeye and Thor L&T: 4-3% each
  • Favourite pandemic release:
    • Loki: 70%
    • WandaVision: 19%
    • FATWS: 6%
    • Black Widow: 4%
  • Favorite character - overall:
    • 1. Spider-Man: 23%
    • 2. Captain America: 13%
    • 3. Doctor Strange: 9%
    • 4. Wanda: 8%
    • 5. Iron Man: 8%
  • Favorite characters - specifics:
    • Subscribers from Europe (22% of the total): 2. Loki and his variants
    • Female subscribers (12% of the total): 3. Thor 4. Daredevil

Bear in mind that this is the reddit for production news, leaks and in-depth discussions that attracts more theorycrafters and nerds. The more casual one (1,9 mln subscribers) is r/marvelstudios/.

The most unusual result for me is how low Iron Man is on the list. His popularity seems to have dropped sharply after he was killed.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 14th 2021 at 10:16:27 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131682: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:56:56 AM

I'm impressed how high Strange is and huh Daredevil is right after Iron Man at 7.6%.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 14th 2021 at 11:57:58 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131683: Aug 14th 2021 at 12:54:30 PM

Damn Shang Chi didn’t even rank for upcoming projects?

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#131684: Aug 14th 2021 at 12:58:26 PM

[up]There’s a lot of conflicting info about that film like the whole “China hates it, it’s doomed” narrative.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131685: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:02:56 PM

I'd say it's more that online reception has just been incredibly lukewarm, overall liking parts but not seeing the point of a faux-kung-fu movie for a Marvel character "that no one's ever heard of." General online narrative is that it's being quietly sent to die for the sake of the MCU release schedule.

There's clearly some amount of "in the bubble" talk, such as the notion that it's being under-marketed (I dunno about anyone else but I seem to catch a commercial every time I put on Fox), but it'll be a bit before we can tell real reception.

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131686: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:07:22 PM

If we're being honest, the pandemic has resulted in Black Widow (2021) having the second-worst box office of any MCU film behind only The Incredible Hulk and this is not even getting into the lawsuit by Scarlett Johansson. For Shang-Chi, he's only one month away from release and it might not do as well as Black Panther (2018), not to mention that it doesn't even have a release date in China (the country that it's trying to appeal to).

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#131687: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:07:39 PM

It's also because well it's such an unknown property with no hook (like say the multiverse in strange ) that theirs no point in getting excited comqpred to the other stuff

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131688: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:09:18 PM

Black Widow had the credit of starring one of the franchise's most long-standing characters.

Shang-Chi by contrast is a complete unknown and doesn't even have the weirdness that helped sell Guardians.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#131689: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:10:13 PM

Shang-Chi's the proverbial Ant-Man of this half of the MCU. It'll live on die on its reception and word of mouth.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#131690: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:10:18 PM

Mind you that could change when the film actually comes out but I can see why people are more interested in other cooler looking things.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131691: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:11:04 PM

Yeah. Marvel has been trying to bring Shang-Chi to the big screen for decades and even Stan Lee backed one that would have starred Brandon Lee, not to mention that he almost appeared in a post-credits scene of The Avengers (2012) alongside the Mandarin. He's isn't as well known as Black Panther and people in Mainland China, Taiwan and Hong Kong have very different reactions to him than Overseas Chinese.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131692: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:13:21 PM

I would say a failure in the trailers is not properly showing off the fight scenes.

Like we only get the money-shots of Shang's battles, not an extended exchange of blows that really show-off the choreography.

Its oddly understated for a kung-fu flick.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#131693: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:17:19 PM

[up]There’s a lot of the obligated by law shaky came and quick cuts in the previews of the fights when it’s established people hate those. That certainly isn’t winning people over.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#131694: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:33:50 PM

It's a recurring problem with action film trailers. They pretty regularly can't find ways to sell the action scenes properly, particularly when said action scenes are of The Oner variety (because the traditional "school of editing" for blockbusters involves fast-paced cutting in the trailers).

Check out the original trailer for John Wick, a film that basically revolutionized western action cinema:

The editing has the typical fast-paced, overly edited action scenes which are the exact opposite of what the film itself actually is. Even the choice of music doesn't fit at all (JW franchise being much more noted for its use of erudite european classical music, synthwave and industrial rock than rap and hip-hop). The trailers of both sequels noticeably adjusted themselves more with longer displays of scenes to try to better reflect how the movie looks (in the chapter 2 trailer showing a bit of the Catacomb sequence and in the Chapter 3 trailer showing the hotel lobby sequence and the motorcycle one). The song choice also radically altered with the choice of erudite european classical music (a remix of Mozart's Dies Irae in Chapter 2 and Vivaldi's Four Seasons in Chapter 3).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#131695: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:34:43 PM

The weird thing is we know even less about Eternals and it placed.

The legend has returned.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131696: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:42:02 PM

It needs to be emphasized that said subreddit is dedicated to production leaks and rumor mills.

And what Eternals has that Shang-Chi doesn't is a full script leak and rumored details from supposed screenings that are being largely treated as verified since the first trailer.

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131697: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:43:25 PM

For Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings and Eternals, they might struggle at the box office since the pandemic has not been too kind to films released in theatres aside from a few exceptions such as Free Guy, not to mention their utter obscurity and lacking the weirdness factor that helped Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man. Though they'll make back their budget like Black Widow but still they won't be billion dollar successes or go beyond the $300 million mark. Spider-Man: No Way Home might perform better than those films since it is a character that is very popular and the prospect of a multiversal crossover with past iterations can be rather exciting for MCU and non-MCU fans to an extent.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Aug 14th 2021 at 1:43:33 AM

Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#131698: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:49:52 PM

[up][up] Yes, I wrote about it above. This is the reddit for hardcore fans who will endlessly discuss stuff like multiverse mechanics and crossovers. It is not about production leaks per se, Eternals are believed to bring in new lore and that excites people who are into the lore.

To get the more casual views we need to wait for the main MCU reddit to publish their results, they usually do it at the end of the year.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 14th 2021 at 12:01:33 PM

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131699: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:56:24 PM

[up][up] Free Guy doing as well as it is actually bodes well for Shang-Chi and Eternals. Combined with F9's success and the apparent "winning formula" in the COVID world is getting as much widespread theater exclusivity as you can.

Which sounds like a no-brainer: forcing people to go to the theater makes more people go to the theater. But it suggests that people aren't as terrified as feared, that the Delta situation right now isn't enough to get people to hole up at home.

Edited by Watchtower on Aug 14th 2021 at 4:56:52 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131700: Aug 14th 2021 at 1:58:32 PM

Well Free Guy does have the advantage of good marketing cause Ryan Reynolds.

Meanwhile Marvel is incredibly tightlipped about Eternals that we still don't know the actual plot of the film beyond the bare basics.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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