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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#131651: Aug 13th 2021 at 6:16:04 PM

Fridging has drifted and expanded as a term. I remember when Vanessa’s death in Deadpool 2 was argued to not be a fridging because the term as originally defined requires the unfortunate victim in question to be forgotten about, but nowadays it’s accepted as an example to the point that even Deadpool himself admitted it in a recent ad.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 13th 2021 at 6:21:30 AM

HBarnill Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
#131652: Aug 13th 2021 at 6:20:55 PM

[up] And in that China-approved cut of Deadpool 2. I'm guessing Reynolds hired 2 female writers as a way to apologize for what took place (they're from the Bob's Burgers team so they're also amazing).

Edited by HBarnill on Aug 13th 2021 at 6:21:13 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131653: Aug 13th 2021 at 6:28:48 PM

The thing that interests me the most considering Black Widow's controversial death is that apparently it was supposed to be Clint who would sacrifice himself at first. But apparently a number of women on the crew of Endgame didn't like this, and said that Natasha should be the one who does the sacrifice.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#131654: Aug 13th 2021 at 6:30:57 PM

I remember thinking how Quill should've survived the Snap and have Endgame show him coping with how he basically screwed over the entire universe by his rash decisions.

But now this discussion's got me thinking... what if Quill survived and sacrificed himself for the Soul Stone? Say you want to do this scene, but still have the angle of two friends trying to stop the other from jumping? Maybe have Quill and Rocket arrive at Vormir. Or hell, Quill and Nebula since they were the ones closest to Gamora. They're not sure if they can get her back, but there's some added poignancy given their link to the last person we saw sacrificed for the Soul Stone.

It would probably completely derail whatever plans Gunn has for GOTG3, but it's a thought. :/

Edited by chasemaddigan on Aug 13th 2021 at 9:31:25 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131655: Aug 13th 2021 at 6:35:01 PM

The star of their own series should probably not be dying in a crossover event unless their series is over, like Iron Man. Black Widow is already mocked for only getting a movie after she was dead despite being around for nearly a decade.

Infinity War and Endgame screwed over Guardians 3 enough without killing off their principal character.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 13th 2021 at 6:35:25 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131656: Aug 13th 2021 at 6:36:53 PM

[up][up] Quill and Rocket might work, but I'm doubtful about Quill and Nebula. The two barely know each other, and their few interactions weren't exactly positive ones in Vol. 2. Rocket and Nebula might work though.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131657: Aug 13th 2021 at 6:48:46 PM

There's an amusing irony to Nat sacrificing herself to save Clint's family when in the Ultimate Universe she was a traitor who murdered Clint's wife and kids.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131659: Aug 13th 2021 at 7:06:09 PM

The Ultimate Universe sucks unless you're Spidey, and so on.

Though even when talking about the main comics universe, it's easy to forget that Widow and Hawkeye were originally villains before Characterization Marches On.

There are places where the MCU superficially references it (for instance, Hawkeye's first full appearance is still as an antagonist (there's a lot of superficial references like that in the first Avengers), albeit against his will), but it's still interesting to think about.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 13th 2021 at 7:06:29 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131660: Aug 13th 2021 at 7:11:13 PM

And I just now realized Jeff Lemire wrote a Green Arrow and Hawkeye run, huh.

Interestingly his GA is considered one of the greatest runs in the character's history despite its relatively short length (around 17-20 issues) while his Hawkeye isn't regarded as much.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#131661: Aug 13th 2021 at 7:16:04 PM

Hell, Hulk left the team in the second issue and didn't join back until after the movie came out. That's fifty years he wasn't on the team. He spent more time as a Defender than as an Avenger.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Aug 13th 2021 at 10:16:36 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131662: Aug 13th 2021 at 7:57:38 PM

The only time Hulk had a shorter team run was as a founding member of the New Fantastic Four.[lol]

One Strip! One Strip!
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#131663: Aug 13th 2021 at 8:08:41 PM

The Ultimate Universe sucks for Spidey too, the dude dies.

The legend has returned.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131664: Aug 13th 2021 at 8:15:08 PM

He’s actually died fewer times than 616 Peter

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#131665: Aug 13th 2021 at 8:35:54 PM

The point is that most of the Ultimate people are a bunch of assholes of some kind, if not outright psychos. Peter contrasts by being still basically a decent guy with cool people around him.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#131666: Aug 13th 2021 at 11:29:31 PM

I feel the problem with large crossover movies is that they really don't have many (or any) supporting characters, really. So whenever writers need Characters as Device, they are foced to use main characters for that, and what normally works in the narrative suddenly doesn't, because we are more invested in the characters than needed.

It's like pulling the wool from our eyes and revealing the bare tropes in place where we are not supposed to be thinking about them.

Btw, any ideas what the next crossover is going to be? Secret Wars? Will Kang be the next Big Bad in that?

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
AdeptGaderius Otaku from the Anime World Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Otaku
#131667: Aug 14th 2021 at 2:50:45 AM

[up] I think Kang should be the main antagonist of the next big Marvel Cinematic Universe Crisis Crossover. The story should adapt The Kang War, elements of the first Kang story - "Prisoners of the Pharoah!", Citizen Kang and The Crossing.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#131668: Aug 14th 2021 at 3:00:11 AM

Well, I think the next Avengers movie should be focusing on the Dark Avengers, either as the protagonists or antagonists.

Kang should absolutely be the focus of an Avengers movie, but I think he'd work best as a Thanos-level threat, built up to over the course of multiple movies. Maybe his focus film can be called "Multiverse War" as like a follow-up to "Infinity War".

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 14th 2021 at 3:00:38 AM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131669: Aug 14th 2021 at 7:11:19 AM

I still fully believe we're getting Young Avengers vs. Kang very soon.

Literally the only member of the OG team unaccounted for is Hulkling and it would make perfect sense for him to be set up in Secret Invasion.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#131670: Aug 14th 2021 at 7:13:20 AM

Or perhaps She-Hulk.

The legend has returned.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131671: Aug 14th 2021 at 7:59:05 AM

[up][up] Hulkling can also be set-up in the Captan Marvel sequel as protecting Teddy from the Kree does sound like a perfect macguffin plot.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131672: Aug 14th 2021 at 8:24:31 AM

It would probably make the most sense to introduce him in The Marvels, yeah. Miss Marvel is likely going to be a terrestrial show and not a cosmic one, and he's not an actual Hulk character so it wouldn't work in She-Hulk at all.

Secret Invasion might work for him too, though, depending on how much the Kree are present.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 14th 2021 at 8:24:58 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131673: Aug 14th 2021 at 9:19:50 AM

While it does seem like Kang will be the main threat, I was kind of hoping we would get some sort of Big Bad Ensemble. It would be interesting to see some sort of collaborative villain effort to counter the collaborative hero effort, especially if it's a mix of Badass Normals and near-Physical Gods. It doesn't have to be too big, maybe only three or four people, but it would be interesting.

That being said, I do remember reading rumors that the next few phases of the MCU were yearning to have a major Earth antagonist and a major cosmic antagonist that would be the main focus. Kang seems likely to fill the role of cosmic antagonist, and perhaps Valentina Allegra de Fontaine fills the Earth antagonist? It's too early to tell, but that would be an interesting idea.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#131674: Aug 14th 2021 at 9:32:56 AM

If I may go back a few pages (can't keep up with thread syndrome intensifies):

On the one hand, Thanos and Tony Stark were the universe's two biggest villains, so the guy who killed them is a goddamned hero.

On the other hand, that guy also killed the guy who killed Thanos and Tony Stark, so fuck that guy.

Edited by TheAirman on Aug 14th 2021 at 11:34:30 AM

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#131675: Aug 14th 2021 at 10:06:43 AM

Regarding Deadpool 2's fridging, I always assumed they were parodying the trope, given that the faux opening credits joke about it. And his girlfriend is brought back to life at the end anyway.

Like creepy stories? Check out my book!

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