Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Agreed.
The sacrifice seems to be there entirely for the sake of being there. If the Soul Stone was shown to have some visible abilities that justified why it was so costly (you have to kill someone you love, and you can't get them back no matter what), it would at least take some of the sting out of it.
One Strip! One Strip!The characters that make the sacrifice on screen do it to complete the set. That justifies the sacrifice to them.
If the stones were just pieces of a kill/save half of everyone device, it wouldn't alter the broad strokes of the plot very much. Its disappointing that the Soul Stone isn't given any individual showing but the Soul Stone doesn't not do anything. It completes the set which is necessary to summon the dragon and wish back everyone Freeza killed.
Edited by Bocaj on Aug 13th 2021 at 12:02:13 PM
Forever liveblogging the AvengersAm I the only one who was severely disappointed by how the Soul Stone was handled in Endgame? I thought that after all those cases in Infinity War where characters had to decide if a single life is worthy of one of the stones, and all made different choices, the narrative will somehow prove Thanos wrong and defeat him phylosophically, showing that no, it is not worth it in the end.
Like, make his Snap flawed and not working exactly as intended because he killed Gamora, or show that there are other ways to acquire the Soul Stone. But no, two characters compete on who is quicker to yank themself off the cliff, following in Thanos's footsteps, and then all heroes come and collectively kick Thanos's ass.
So much wasted potential.
Edited by Asherinka on Aug 13th 2021 at 7:53:32 PM
Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.I recall the screenwriters saying in the DVD commentary that so many MacGuffins was challenging to write and if they were allowed to they would’ve cut the number of plot trinkets to three. It really shows with how rapidly the Soul Stone is crammed in the plot.
And yeah it’s frustrating how the heroes just end up repeating having to sacrifice somebody like Thanos.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 13th 2021 at 12:01:13 PM
"But no, two characters compete on who is quicker to yank themself off the cliff"
That is the reason I coudnt really take the scene seriously, since it was two chararter fighting about who is going to kill itself is so hilarious it just take all the gravitas of the situation.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"With gamora, I feel is more that thanos does have an atachmen to her in some way and even he dosent know it, it speak volumes of thanos that away.
Even them the fact tony stark sacrifice himself just prove that yeah, sometimes a sacrifice is worthy.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"One of the early plans for Infinity War was to somehow reveal that Steve was the Soul Stone
.
... I have no friggin' clue how that was going to be pulled off.
I also remember watching Thor: Ragnarok for the first time and wondering if they were going to reveal that the Eternal Flame was the Soul Stone. It kinda contradicts the stinger to Thor: The Dark World, but it was orange like the Soul Stone and had the ability to raise the dead, which is related to souls. That ultimately didn't happen, but it was something that crossed my mind while I was watching it.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Aug 13th 2021 at 4:36:33 AM
Reminds me of the recent status quo in the comics where the stones have all jammed themselves into people
Forever liveblogging the AvengersLikely just a completely random spitball of an idea, but as nonsensical as it sounds, it no doubt would've been really interesting, much moreso than the version we got since Living MacGuffin is a well-known and often viable plot device. It also would've likely created less Fridge Logic than the official ending (makes sense that he can jump time if he's literally magic).
Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 13th 2021 at 4:40:35 AM
It would make two whole Avengers that had to have stones pulled out of them
Forever liveblogging the AvengersThe ultimate infinity stones were a massive disappointment
Two whole gloves, one wet flop
Forever liveblogging the AvengersOk, I'm operating on not enough sleep so I hope I don't stumble typing this out too badly but I just cannot get over the fact that the Soul Stone is basically an avenue to kill off two of the most prominent women in the franchise (who had their share of untapped story/character potential) in one of if not the worst ways possible, for the sake of this "obligatory" 3rd act death. That's it, that's the big thing the stone contributes and I hate it. I think Gamora's death is worse to me personally since it tries to make her genocidal abuser look like the real tragic, layered figure here, and I cared about her more than Nat going into both of these movies, though Natasha's death is more sloppy and stupid in its trying to rehash the previous Vormir scene, and an abysmal end to a constantly undercooked character over the years. The whole thing is just so ill-conceived out and gross and I can't think of a worse scene in these movies. I really think Marcus and Mc Feely just lost a lot of their writing/story-telling chops by this point.
Pretty hefty rant out of the blue but I've had some big thoughts on Vormir and the Soul Stone's translation into film over the years and their ramifications on the characters and themes, and I guess I saw a chance to let some of them out. I ain't pleased.
Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)I'm not bothered by the concept of the Soul Stone requiring a sacrifice (though I do miss the soul realm known mentioned, particularly given IW seemed to strangely nod towards it with the scene of Gamora and Thanos chatting, but Endgame doesn't really follow that up). I don't think the Stones really need to be "moral" in their requirement. They're not like Excalibur, after all, so to me it makes perfect sense the soul stone has no "moral alternative" way of wielding it. Your rightoeusness doesn't feature into it at all.
Unlike basically everyone in this thread I also prefer when heroes go out in a blaze of glory, so I thought Natasha sacrificing herself to save the universe was a nice turn of events. It's a good way to die.
The problem with her character for me was not her end but what came before.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."

Much as Cinemasins nitpicks too much, especially in superhero movies, they made a good point in their Infinity War video that the Soul Stone doesn’t really do anything that justifies the sacrifices the characters had to make for it.