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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#131576: Aug 12th 2021 at 5:11:02 PM

It's a bit of an awkward addition, particularly considering Sokovia is pretty clearly located on what would be the Soviet side of the Iron Curtain (and soviets would definitely steamroll aristocratic titles first thing in the morning). Sokovia could have had some sort of monarchical restoration since 1991 (particularly given there was a Sokovian Civil War for some unnaddressed reasons), but it's quite a convoluted backstory and something that so far hasn't been addressed at all.

Eh, Cambodia had a restoration of the monarchy after the civil war there, it's not necessarily out of the question.

I'm more confused because Zemo in Civil War came off to me like an average man. The implication I had taken was that Zemo was a normal person who represented those who suffered from the Avengers' mistakes, who brought them down as a consequence of their failures. Him being an aristocrat kind of torpedoes that idea and just makes him a rich asshole.

Edited by Diana1969 on Aug 12th 2021 at 10:11:24 PM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#131577: Aug 12th 2021 at 5:13:30 PM

There's a part of me that wishes that Zemo had an interaction with Wanda during Civil War. Two Sokovians, from different social backgrounds, both blame members of the Avengers for the deaths of their families (though Wanda primarily hated Tony and only considered the others guilty by association; Zemo just hates them all equally). Wanda grew out of her grudge against the Avengers and became one of them; Zemo still has his prejudices.

Okey Dokey!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#131578: Aug 12th 2021 at 5:16:00 PM

I think shang chi will probably keep it's release date. Since its a totally new hero and such and their not as attached.

It will be the sacrifice to see if theatres are open for business or not. If it is, then fine. If not they'll delay the rest of the set.

Edited by miraculous on Aug 12th 2021 at 5:16:13 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#131579: Aug 12th 2021 at 5:16:44 PM

Between working for the Sokovian Military and also being a blue-blooded aristocrat, it paints a narrative that Zemo's real fear and his hatred of Super Soldiers stems from the idea of power superior to his own landing in the hands of those who he deems inferior to him.

Or at least, that's an argument a character could make against Zemo if the show wanted you to be critical of him. But it clearly doesn't. Falcon and the Winter Soldier wants you to like Helmutt Zemo, a murderous tool of fascism who will kill anyone he wants to achieve his goals, no matter how cruel and petty those goals are, more than John Walker. A man who, I cannot stress enough, is literally just a guy.

My various fanfics.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131580: Aug 12th 2021 at 5:20:06 PM

[up][up] Its gonna be interesting how Shang will do at the box-office.

Black Widow is a very longstanding character while Shang is a complete newbie.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#131581: Aug 12th 2021 at 5:25:12 PM

Between working for the Sokovian Military and also being a blue-blooded aristocrat, it paints a narrative that Zemo's real fear and his hatred of Super Soldiers stems from the idea of power superior to his own landing in the hands of those who he deems inferior to him.

@SonOfSharknado: Consider that a girl from the poor part of town in his country is now one of the most powerful individuals on Earth. That's gonna get really dicey if Zemo becomes part of the Thunderbolts and Wanda ends up crossing paths with him.

Okey Dokey!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131582: Aug 12th 2021 at 5:32:29 PM

Dicey as in she’ll dice him into cubes?

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 12th 2021 at 8:32:37 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Krory Since: Aug, 2012
#131584: Aug 12th 2021 at 5:45:02 PM

I dunno, I found Sam and Bucky's reaction to John pretty realistic. If my friend just died, nd some other guy showed up wearing his clothes, driving his car, and told me 'Since I'm replacing your best friend, I've decided we should be friends too' I'd have told him to get bent too.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#131585: Aug 12th 2021 at 5:48:01 PM

But he explicitly said "Look, I'm not Steve. I'm not trying to replace Steve. I'm just trying to do the best I can. And maybe we should work together to take down this terrorist that we all want to catch, anyway."

Bucky: "Your mother's a whore."

Sam: -Shrugs-

My various fanfics.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131586: Aug 12th 2021 at 6:21:25 PM

I've noted it in the main TFatWS thread but I've always taken MCU Zemo's bluebloodedness as something that, outside of the secret stockpile of old money, doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. Like oooh, you're a Baron of a failed Eastern Bloc state, whoop de shit.

Hell, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if Val de Fontaine being a Contessa means even less beyond her inheriting her own old money and being bougie af.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131587: Aug 12th 2021 at 6:22:34 PM

I suppose being an Italian countess wouldn’t matter much in the US

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131588: Aug 12th 2021 at 6:32:21 PM

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if MCU Valentina's actual first name was Contessa, instread of a title, tbh.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#131589: Aug 12th 2021 at 10:09:56 PM

Director Alan Taylor Talks Thor: The Dark World Backlash: ‘I Had Lost the Will to Make Movies’.

In a story straight out of Warner Bros., it sounds like Taylor had a lot of oversight issues from the people above him that turned his film into something else.

“The version I had started off with had more childlike wonder; there was this imagery of children, which started the whole thing,” he described. “There was a slightly more magical quality. There was weird stuff going on back on Earth because of the convergence that allowed for some of these magical realism things. And there were major plot differences that were inverted in the cutting room and with additional photography — people [such as Loki] who had died were not dead, people who had broken up were back together again. I think I would like my version.”

“I really admire the skill set of somebody who can go in with a very personal vision — like [Thor 3 director] Taika Waititi or James Gunn — and manage to combine it with the big corporate demands,” he continued on to say. “I think my skill set may be different.”

The double punch of The Dark World and Terminator: Genisys getting torn apart by critics and fans dampened all the excitement he felt about making films, he explained.

“I had lost the will to make movies,” Taylor said. “I lost the will to live as a director. I’m not blaming any person for that. The process was not good for me. So I came out of it having to rediscover the joy of filmmaking.”

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131590: Aug 12th 2021 at 11:35:09 PM

It sounds like his original idea intended to actually use the aether / reality stone in a substantial way.

That's a shame. One of the weaknesses of the finished film is that it's never really established what the aether does or why its so bad. Malekith wants to use it to kill the concept of light, but we never learn how it's supposed to do that.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#131591: Aug 12th 2021 at 11:39:49 PM

In hindsight, the aether turning out to be the Reality Stone would handily explain how it could remove light as a concept from existence. The thing can warp reality.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#131592: Aug 12th 2021 at 11:40:36 PM

In the Infinity duology itself its a bit nebulous as the reality stone seems to be more used by Thanos to make illusions than actually permanently change things.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#131593: Aug 12th 2021 at 11:43:42 PM

I don't think they're illusions, I think they're literally changing reality, it just happens to wear off when the Reality Stone is no longer in range.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#131594: Aug 12th 2021 at 11:59:07 PM

It seems to depend on how much its current wielder understands the power of the Reality Stone / Aether. Malekith understood it well enough to be able to eventually make the entire universe dark. Thanos understood it even better and could create entire false (though temporary) realities along with other feats of transmutation like turning Quill's blaster into a bubble gun. Thanos also had the additional advantages of wielding the other Stones at the same time to give the Reality Stone a boost.

Edited by M84 on Aug 14th 2021 at 3:00:34 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#131595: Aug 13th 2021 at 12:22:29 AM

That's still more than the Soul Stone, which just... makes Vision.

My various fanfics.
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#131596: Aug 13th 2021 at 12:30:06 AM

That's the Mind Stone.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#131597: Aug 13th 2021 at 12:31:45 AM

The Mind Stone was also the power source of Loki's sceptre in the first Avengers movie which allowed him to mind control people.

The Mind Stone is actually pretty powerful since it can imbue true sentience into artificial beings like Ultron and Vision. The experiments with the Mind Stone also unlocked the powers of Wanda and Pietro Maximoff.

Edited by M84 on Aug 14th 2021 at 3:33:32 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#131598: Aug 13th 2021 at 12:32:27 AM

Then what the hell does the Soul Stone do?!

My various fanfics.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#131600: Aug 13th 2021 at 12:36:50 AM

The Soul Stone's powers in the MCU are vague, but it hosts a pocket dimension that contains the souls of those sacrificed to it.

Thanos also used it in the battle on Titan to locate the real Doctor Strange among his duplicates and even shoved Strange's soul out of his body for a moment.

I once posited a theory about how the Snap relied on all six Stones working in tandem:

  • The Power Stone supplies the power needed and amplifies the others.

  • The Reality Stone does the actual transmutation of people into dust.

  • The Time Stone ensures that the normally temporary reality warping of the Reality Stone is permanent.

  • The Space Stone is what allows the Snap to affect the entire universe almost simultaneously.

  • The Soul Stone's mastery over souls is what detects the living beings in the universe who are to be Snapped.

  • The Mind Stone is the intelligence behind the Snap — it's essentially an algorithm to ensure that exactly half of the universe is Snapped.

Edited by M84 on Aug 14th 2021 at 3:46:27 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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