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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#131501: Aug 10th 2021 at 8:46:12 PM

I love the idea of the Young Avengers facing off against the Dark Avengers, remnants of the original Avengers' pasts.

The legend has returned.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#131502: Aug 10th 2021 at 9:19:34 PM

Actually did happen in Dark Reign (well, the Dark Avengers, but potato-potahto): the YA were spunky kids influenced by the Avengers, the Young Masters were spunky kids influenced by Norman Osborn, then in the end both teams fight the DA. The actual miniseries was super inconsequential but the root of the conflict (next gen vs messes of old gen) seems easily adaptable to the MCU at this point.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#131503: Aug 10th 2021 at 9:20:36 PM

Personally, I just want to see a movie focusing entirely on a battle between a superhero team vs a supervillain team. That sounds awesome, and it's something we've never seen in live-action before.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#131504: Aug 10th 2021 at 9:43:09 PM

It did somewhat surprise me none of the Avengers film up to this point featured "evil Avengers" like The Masters of Evil.

I think what might be the angle here would be to set up both Young Avengers and a Masters Of Evil/Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers squad separately from one another. The status quo of the MCU so far seems to be a "post-Avengers" world. As it's been pointed out, a good number of the Avengers are dead (Stark, Natasha, Vision), retired (Hulk, Cap) or fugitives from the law (Hawkeye, Wanda). So I think the storyline here might be of attempts to fill the void left by the Avengers. This would result in both the Young Avengers (i.e the new breed taking up the torch) and the Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers/Masters of Evil (i.e villains trying to fill the void left behind) emerging as separate but competing visions of what the Avengers should from now on: dreams of the future or nightmares of the past?

You could give both the Young Avengers and the Thunderbolts solo films establishing them as groups, and then have the filmic equivalent of Captain America: Civil War of this MCU status quo be a film centered on the two teams clashing for good and all to know who are the true Avengers, with the Young Avengers coming up on top. Like Civil War, it then cascades into the real Big Bad arriving (Kang the Conqueror, one presumes) and forcing both teams to set their differences aside to save the earth.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131505: Aug 10th 2021 at 9:48:24 PM

So....lets say Tony had absolutely nothing to do with Ultron.

Would Zemo have still blamed and targeted them for the death of his family?

I've thought about it a lot, and I think he would have. He clearly has issues with those who (in his mind) see themselves as above others.

Honestly, the only reason Zemo comes off as sympathetic to some extent is because it really is the Avengers (well, mainly Tony and Wanda's) fault for the destruction of Sokovia. Ultron is also to blame, but it's clear not many people seem to know about him because everybody was laying the blame at Tony's feet.

And well, they should. Cause it's always right to blame Tony Stark, but at least throw some of that shade at Ultron.

And I say this as someone who still thinks Ultron going rogue so quickly is still really suspicious, and is surprised that it's never been confirmed that there was some kind of trap in the Mind Stone.

One Strip! One Strip!
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#131506: Aug 10th 2021 at 9:49:56 PM

It did somewhat surprise me none of the Avengers film up to this point featured "evil Avengers" like The Masters of Evil.

Ah yes, the best way to address the "we overuse the 'Hero Fights Shadow Archetype' criticism"... that, but ON STEROIDS!

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#131507: Aug 10th 2021 at 9:50:59 PM

I thought the deal was that everyone who showed up to battle Thanos during Endgame was (at least in that moment) an Avenger, so the number of Avengers is theoretically quite large.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131508: Aug 10th 2021 at 10:01:24 PM

And I thought the Defenders had almost no requirements for membership.

One Strip! One Strip!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#131509: Aug 10th 2021 at 10:02:33 PM

The Defenders aren't even a thing in the MCU, they're just four assholes who live in New York and hung out one time and casually did some domestic terrorism.

My various fanfics.
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#131510: Aug 10th 2021 at 10:05:48 PM

The Defenders aren't even a thing in the MCU, they're just four assholes who live in New York and hung out one time and casually did some domestic terrorism.

One hell of a bender, if you ask me.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#131511: Aug 10th 2021 at 11:48:11 PM

And those aren't even any of the people normally associated with the Defenders (at least not before the show). Hell, Ragnarok is technically a more accurate depiction of the Defenders, having Hulk, Valkyrie, and Dr. Strange all in the same movie... though granted Strange doesn't actually share screentime with the former two.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131512: Aug 11th 2021 at 1:37:00 AM

From what I recall Marvel Knights is technically a more accurate term for the team.

They just like using names that sound similar to Avengers like how the Modok cartoon originally would have lead to a crossover special with Hit-Monkey, Tigra and Dazzler, and Howard the Duck titled the Offenders.

Though it is amusing the ability discrepancy sheer of the Defenders team. From what I recall Jessica Jones has a huge problem of feeling extremely superfluous compared to the other 3.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 11th 2021 at 1:38:41 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#131513: Aug 11th 2021 at 4:32:31 AM

Jessica Jones has a huge problem of feeling extremely superfluous compared to the other 3.

Danny and Matt were both way more skilled than she was, Matt's super senses also made her detective skills a bit redundant. She DID have legit super strength but Luke was better at that.

Poor Jess...

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131514: Aug 11th 2021 at 4:41:20 AM

Her personality didn't help.

Danny wanted to outright stop the problem, Matt wanted no part of it but he at least had some awareness of it, while Luke and Jess were completely out of their depth.

Though Luke at least wanted to understand what was going on, Jess was just constant "This is is stupid, this is so stupid, I don't understand this, this is so stupid" to the point Stick had to yell at her to shut up.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#131515: Aug 11th 2021 at 5:26:35 AM

Well I mean, Jessica could jump real high grin

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#131516: Aug 11th 2021 at 5:27:40 AM

shes part rabbit you know

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#131517: Aug 11th 2021 at 6:43:23 AM

Wait, ignore.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Aug 11th 2021 at 9:43:49 AM

The legend has returned.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131518: Aug 11th 2021 at 8:43:59 AM

I'm pretty sure Jessica may be stronger than Luke, while Luke is more durable.

Also, her jumping is probably an advantage. I'm assuming he might be too heavy for that, otherwise he'd have held up the Elevator.

I believe it goes Danny is Skilled, but Naive (and hated by literally everyone), Matt is Weak, but Skilled (he's been training as long as Danny, but lacks the Iron Fist so makes up with it with his armour and enhanced senses), Luke is Willfully Weak (since he holds back a lot) and Jess is Unskilled, but Strong (has zero technique, but can take more punishment than normal people, Kung Fu skills or not, so if she manages to hit you, you go down like a chump).

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131519: Aug 11th 2021 at 8:46:31 AM

Wait is she stronger than him?

I thought her super-strength is pretty low level.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131520: Aug 11th 2021 at 8:52:07 AM

When they fought while Luke was under Killgrave control, Jessica had a lot of trouble with him and had to shotgun his jaw

I feel like Luke is probably stronger based on that.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#131521: Aug 11th 2021 at 9:02:05 AM

Netflix Iron Fist is the absolute worst version of Iron Fist. Not only is he a straight-up worse martial artist than Matt, like not even close, but his Chi power is one punch that he can use once and then needs to recharge for like three days.

My various fanfics.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#131522: Aug 11th 2021 at 9:09:48 AM

[up]Of all the Netflix actors, you know that guy isn't going to be asked back.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#131523: Aug 11th 2021 at 9:10:43 AM

-Monkey's paw uncurls-[up]

well shit

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131524: Aug 11th 2021 at 9:11:55 AM

Of all the potential shows/movies whatever, I really hope for a Heroes for Hire something.

Just have the most adorable bromance between Luke and Danny.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131525: Aug 11th 2021 at 10:25:40 AM

He improved a lot in his appearance in Season 2 of Luke Cage, and his own series (where he basically recognized he wasn't a great Iron Fist and gave the power to Colleen instead), but yeah.

Finn Jones is done. He's like the Inhumans. Nobody wants to see him. He ain't coming back, and it's probably better for everyone if he stays away (him included, since he'd just get dunked endlessly by the fandom).

One Strip! One Strip!

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