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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131476: Aug 10th 2021 at 11:34:49 AM

[up][up] Honestly I would take literally anything other than white guy in a suit.

Even Vanko had a better look than Killian.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#131477: Aug 10th 2021 at 11:41:02 AM

Make Killian less of a generic evil nerd.

The legend has returned.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#131478: Aug 10th 2021 at 11:41:21 AM

Even Vanko had a better look than Killian.

Oh come on, someone here has to have something good to say about Kilian's clothes.

Partly joking.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131479: Aug 10th 2021 at 11:46:32 AM

I liked his powers

That’s not clothes but it’s something

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#131480: Aug 10th 2021 at 11:48:16 AM

The twist would have worked fine.

If killain was something. Intimidating, charismatic, etc.

In practice. He's just a really lame, whiny prick.

It's the basic good idea. Bad execution.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131481: Aug 10th 2021 at 11:54:53 AM

I think it would've been better if the villain was Maya Hansen like it was originally planned. I felt like she had a lot of potential as a character, and then was just killed off like she was nobody.

But nope, gotta fuel Ike Perlmutter's misogynistic ego.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#131482: Aug 10th 2021 at 11:55:44 AM

In the early days of the MCU they had the Creative Committee who was more or less in charge of keeping things SOMEWHAT consistent from film to film, later this turned to just Feige.

WB didn't have that 'Top Down' structure or mentality, everybody did almost whatever they wanted. Mo S was most likely never originally envisioned to be the start up of a whole Extended Universe, but with its success and by then the HUGE success of the MCU with Avengers (released just the year before) made WB hungry for the money a JL film would make.

Snyder got the tap to make that vision a reality, but he had his own ideas and its ALSO possible they didn't think the MCU had a DECADE long plan spanning over TWENTY films, its possible WB believed that the Avengers (2012) WAS the end game.

So by the time we GOT to JL in 2017, WB had long come to the realization that the Avengers (2012) wasn't the endgame but the end of the first chapter of a much larger saga and cash cow and again...they wanted that too but it was far too late. Snyder gonna Snyder and to their horror not only was Bv S poorly recd but he had an 'ending' planned for all the most profitable/bankable characters. Hence they huge efforts to try and course correct

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#131483: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:01:00 PM

I got distracted while typing this out so it's a little late but Josstice League feels more "stereotypically Marvel movie" than virtually any actual Marvel movie. It's such a Frankenstein's monster of course-correcting that's gotten worse and worse the more I think about it and the more details behind the production and Whedon have come out. It's certainly a credit to Marvel Studios that, even if they've had some duds along the way, they've never put a film that's thaaaaaat bad (with the arguable exception of AOU).

Although, I guess a trade-off is some of these newer DC films (Shazam, Birds of Prey, The Suicide Squad) I enjoy more than the majority of Marvel movies, as well as any Marvel movie since Black Panther.

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Aug 10th 2021 at 12:01:48 PM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#131484: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:04:48 PM

some of these newer DC films (Shazam, Birds of Prey, The Suicide Squad) I enjoy more than the majority of Marvel movies, as well as any Marvel movie since Black Panther.

[up]I agree with this, too. As someone who broadly liked all the DCEU movies not made by Snyder and Ayer, I'm pretty content with where the DC films ended up (especially in contrast to the MCU). The MCU wins with interconnectedness, but the DC films feel less built by committee, and that's fine, different strokes etc., we'll always have WesternAnimation.Justice League.

Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 10th 2021 at 2:07:09 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131485: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:05:53 PM

[up][up] You're probably right. But I think the most important thing that allowed Marvel to flourish was the dissolution of the Creative Committee. Yes, Disney is a terrible company and despite Marvel being their cash cow, you can see their influence negatively affecting some parts of the MCU at large. But if it wasn't for them, the Creative Committee would still be in charge, and I'm almost certain that the MCU would've crashed, or would've devolved into being a franchise generic stereotypical mess much like Josstice League was. We would NOT be getting Black Panther, Captain/Ms Marvel, Shang-Chi, or especially the Eternals under the Committee's influence.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Aug 10th 2021 at 12:06:01 PM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#131486: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:06:03 PM

That’s the thing with the MCU movies. Even the bad ones are good in context of the rest of the MCU. For example, the earlier mentioned details from Age of Ultron that make more sense now that Wandavision exists.

The legend has returned.
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#131487: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:07:46 PM

It also helps the DC side that all the directors post JL films LEARNED from the Snyder/Whedon/Ayer messes and had worked into their contracts that they would have more freedoms and less 'made by committee' interference.

And for the most part it worked with the noted exception of WW 84.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131488: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:16:40 PM

Amusingly you can say that WW 84’s problem was too much creative freedom. [lol]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#131489: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:19:47 PM

They apparently changed the scriptwriter from the first film which uh shows....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#131490: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:20:22 PM

Kevin Feige will undoubtedly go down as one of the greatest Hollywood producers of all time. He's not the only one responsible for the MCU's success (casting director Sarah Finn will never get enough credit) but as the captain of the ship he's lead the MCU into the unique cultural juggernaut it's at now and his own ascension into effectively becoming the King of Marvel is indicative of that success. And it really boils down to the perfect storm of character traits he has: he's a skilled producer but with legitimate creative chops, he's a die-hard Marvel fan who just gets intuitively how these characters work, he's charismatic to make people want to work for him, he both extensively plans long-term but is also extremely flexible short-term, he's downright Born Lucky, etc.

If you want to make a solid cinematic universe you really need someone or someones that can replicate those traits, and pretty much no one else has really succeeded at that. Geoff Johns has clearly been trying to prop himself up as this for the DCEU but for multiple reasons (some of which have only become evident from Fisher's accusations) he will never be up to the task.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131491: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:34:30 PM

I am fairly amused that DC at least beat out Marvel on the villain protagonist film with Suicide Squad and eventually Black Adam.

It’s funny to think about.

[up][up] Plus a different special effects team, yeeesh.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 10th 2021 at 12:34:47 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#131492: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:41:04 PM

In Marvel’s defense, getting a villain protagonist for them would be hard since the only one I can think of is Venom and Sony owns that.

The legend has returned.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131493: Aug 10th 2021 at 12:41:43 PM

[up][up] DC did also beat out Marvel in terms of having a headlining female protagonist. Which I will give them full credit for.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Aug 10th 2021 at 12:41:52 PM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131494: Aug 10th 2021 at 1:08:21 PM

[up][up] There probably are but were most likely too high concept for early Marvel.

Ironically Taskmaster could have worked decently well as the lead of his own action movie.

[up] Feige has said he’ll always regret how DC beat them to the lunch like that.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 10th 2021 at 1:09:17 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131495: Aug 10th 2021 at 1:30:54 PM

I’d argue that the suicide squad wasn’t more villain protagonist than the guardians in their first film

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#131496: Aug 10th 2021 at 2:43:25 PM

Suicide Squad I think is actually the type of project more suited for the MCU than the DCEU. Part of the fun of the Suicide Squad is seeing those (often rather minor) villains you saw before get the spotlight as a anti-heroic squad of misfits. Both films basically introduce them to an audience, as they didn't have a chance to show up before.

Marvel actually has a golden opportunity here with their roster of captured villains to do the same base concept but maintaning that hook of "villains you saw before come back as protagonists" if they do pull the trigger on the much speculated Ghost-Abomination-Zemo Thunderbolts concept.

I have actually mused before that a neat (if risky) idea would have been a MCU-esque Phase 1 of superhero films with the catch that they're setting up the villains coming together in a Suicide Squad film occupying the space of The Avengers in this phase 1. So you get like a Superman movie which introduces Manchester Black, a Flash movie which introduces Captain Cold, a Batman movie which introduces Harley Quinn and a Aquaman movie which introduces King Shark or something. Then you get to see the villains take center stage.

Edited by Gaon on Aug 10th 2021 at 2:49:09 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131497: Aug 10th 2021 at 3:26:11 PM

[up] As speculated by other people here, it might be what Valentina's ultimate objective is. She definitely wants to be some kind of eccentric, but still dangerous power player, and has the anti villains to back her up.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#131498: Aug 10th 2021 at 3:43:06 PM

The question is will the next Avengers movie be a Dark Avengers movie starring all those villains and anti-heroes or will it be a Young Avengers movie with the Dark Avengers as the antagonists?

Personally, I'd prefer the latter option, but I could see them going either route.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 10th 2021 at 3:43:44 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131499: Aug 10th 2021 at 3:45:12 PM

I humoring the idea that they might do something with the Squadron Supreme.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131500: Aug 10th 2021 at 4:00:16 PM

I think the next avengers movie might be an Avengers movie though I know not what roster it will have

[up] if they do something with Squadron Supreme I really hope they follow it up by adapting the maxi series where they try to fix the world

Edited by Bocaj on Aug 10th 2021 at 7:01:19 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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