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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#131301: Aug 5th 2021 at 9:26:05 AM

There was a story in Detective Comics 500 where the Phantom Stranger sends Batman and Robin to an alternate universe where the Waynes are about to get shot; Batman saves them, but the alternate version of Bruce is heavily implied to grow up to be Batman because of the prime version's example.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131302: Aug 5th 2021 at 9:29:39 AM

What if...Bruce Wayne was transformed into a bear? Then he will become Batbear!

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131303: Aug 5th 2021 at 9:34:00 AM

Criminals are a fearful lot

Because wouldn’t you be??

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131304: Aug 5th 2021 at 9:44:47 AM

It is Gotham, there are plenty of things to be scared about.

Like the big crocodile man.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 5th 2021 at 9:45:02 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#131305: Aug 5th 2021 at 9:45:06 AM

DC has its own name for their "What If...?" stuff: Elseworlds.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#131306: Aug 5th 2021 at 9:46:19 AM

> Like the big crocodile man.

And zombies like Soloman Grundy

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131307: Aug 5th 2021 at 9:49:58 AM

[up][up] I thought there was an established difference between What Ifs and Elseworlds though. Minus the DC/Marvel brand.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#131308: Aug 5th 2021 at 9:56:23 AM

Well, there is also the Tales of The Dark Multiverse if you want events going to hell.

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131309: Aug 5th 2021 at 10:00:15 AM

"I weave my way through time like the finest stitching on an exquisite tapestry of quantum probabilities."

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#131310: Aug 5th 2021 at 10:06:48 AM

Notably, based on how Awkwafina’s character is holding a sword, she’s most likely not going to be just a comic relief.

It's a bow, but yes.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#131311: Aug 5th 2021 at 10:30:11 AM

My wild mass guessing is that she might be another spy of Shang's father.

But I'd happily have her be a normal friend. I'd probably prefer that.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#131312: Aug 5th 2021 at 11:08:49 AM

From God's Perfect Idiot himself, Deadpool 3 (probably) has a 70% chance of filming next year.

Sounds like they have a director all set up or very close to it, at least.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Aug 5th 2021 at 2:09:06 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131313: Aug 5th 2021 at 11:47:33 AM

Notably, based on how Awkwafina’s character is holding a sword, she’s most likely not going to be just a comic relief.

I'm convinced she's Leiko Wu.

Like, she was sent to spy on Shang by Interpol or New SHIELD or whatever to see if he was a lead to his father, but then they became actual friends. Mandarin - always aware of his enemies - knows who she is, but Shang doesn't, leading to a Liar Revealed bit later on in the movie.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 5th 2021 at 11:49:21 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131314: Aug 5th 2021 at 11:48:27 AM

Also to be clear that quote I said was from Tales of the Dark Multiverse: Flashpoint said by Reverse-Flash.

I just like it because it sounds so cool.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131315: Aug 5th 2021 at 11:55:47 AM

I doubt that Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings will do well in China. For starters, the trailer wasn't well liked by Mainland Chinese viewers because they saw it as a Westernized portrayal of their culture (especially martial arts), a disliked slanted-eyed characters and the fact that the Mandarin (a Yellow Peril stereotype) is the father of Shang-Chi. Even if it does secure a release date in the mainland, it will perform poorly there similar to Mulan (2020).

For Eternals, the film's director Chloé Zhao criticized the government of China and since one of its characters is LGBT, I don't think that they might allow it to be released. In recent years, Hollywood has tried to reach out to China due to its growing economy so they make films that usually add in Chinese lead characters. However, as Mulan has shown us, you can't just cater to the Mainland Chinese audience by including stuff they would consider unacceptable or have a poorly-researched, inaccurate portrayal of their culture.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Aug 5th 2021 at 12:00:15 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131316: Aug 5th 2021 at 11:57:29 AM

IIRC the primary reason China didn't respond well to the trailer was that they didn't like Shang's actor, not that they didn't like the movie's premise.

China does tends to respond well to American martial arts films or Western portrayals of their cultures (see also, Kung Fu Panda), as long as they're done well. The Chinese public nowadays tends not to respond well to movies that are blatant attempts to pander to them (IE, the kinds of movies Hollywood makes in order to get the Chinese government's favor and keep their movies from getting banned) but that's a different kettle of fish.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 5th 2021 at 12:01:02 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131317: Aug 5th 2021 at 11:59:07 AM

Didn’t they respond positively to Dad-Chi’s handsomeness?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131318: Aug 5th 2021 at 12:01:40 PM

He's the star of classic romantic movies over there.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131319: Aug 5th 2021 at 12:01:41 PM

[up][up] Not necessarily the premise but as noted on the film's YMMV page, Mainland Chinese viewers were not impressed by some of the things seen in the trailer and likely the final product. So it's a case of Americans Hate Tingle.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#131320: Aug 5th 2021 at 12:02:00 PM

Always felt like the target market is the Asian diaspora, not the Chinese audience. I'd be surprised if Marvel hasn't taken note of the difference in reception Crazy Rich Asians and The Farewell got between AsAms and mainland Chinese audiences.

That said, Tony Leung maintains a diehard Asian fanbase so that will probably draw some folks in.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131321: Aug 5th 2021 at 12:02:42 PM

Didn’t they respond positively to Dad-Chi’s handsomeness?

Yeah, that was the big thing.

As I understand it, the problem was that Simu Lu basically embodies more American standards of attractiveness, whereas Tony Leung embodies more an actual Chinese standard of attractiveness. There was a lot of buzz about the Chinese audience even preferring to have Tony in the protag slot vs Simu.

Not necessarily the premise but as noted on the film's YMMV page, Mainland Chinese viewers were not impressed by some of the things seen in the trailer and likely the final product.

Citation needed. There's been articles as such about the reaction I'm talking about, but I've only ever seen the things you're claiming from American sources (usually editorials), not Chinese ones.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 5th 2021 at 12:06:27 PM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#131322: Aug 5th 2021 at 12:05:43 PM

Said simply, they prefer a Pretty Boy instead of a Hunk like Liu for looks. As for anything else, it'll take a lot to convince them.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131323: Aug 5th 2021 at 12:05:56 PM

Yeah, the beauty thing is one issue for the film in China (and of course, the whole Asian slanted-eyed characters stuff). And you pointed out, China does respond well to Western portrayals of Chinese culture and martial arts, as long as the creators actually do their work. In the case of films that portray the CCP in a positive light, they tend to do well there. For Shang-Chi, it won't be warmly received in China for the reasons already mentioned.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131324: Aug 5th 2021 at 12:06:32 PM

Again, the Chinese market tends not to actually care about that sort of thing as much as Americans do.

Remember that Fu Manchu isn't even a character the Chinese audience will have much cognizance of, being a British-made character from over half a century ago that's unlikely to even be allowed reading over there. The idea that the Chinese audience as a whole is railing against the use of a character who, decades ago, was originally a character from decades prior to that, both of whom are not in the mainstream even over here - let alone over there - is difficult to swallow.

So, yeah. Citation needed. More than just "somebody added it to the YMMV page."

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 5th 2021 at 12:09:12 PM

Chrononaut70 Since: Dec, 2020
#131325: Aug 5th 2021 at 12:09:30 PM

For the sources I cited, Variety quoted a CCP youth magazine and Weibo users' thoughts on the trailer. The same reaction has also been found in Taiwan and Hong Kong through the dislikes of the trailer in Marvel's official YouTube channels in both countries.

Edited by Chrononaut70 on Aug 5th 2021 at 12:13:01 PM


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