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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131176: Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:19:04 PM

There's also the Canadian Ninjas I remember which now that I think about it could work well depending on the tone.

If the show focuses more on the lighter and wackier super-heroics then characters like Canada Ninjas and Cockatiel Edison would be perfect.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#131177: Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:24:33 PM

Canadian Ninjas?

I don’t suppose they can help introduce Alpha Flight, can they?

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#131178: Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:27:17 PM

Most of the legacy characters of this century haven't really had time to properly set-up a rogues gallery (and/or the ones they did set up didn't catch on) so they usually have to borrow from their other versions. This works good for adaptations as it's borderline impossible for a film franchise to really do a deep-dive in a hero's rogues gallery. Over the course of three films, for example, Stark faced at most a grand total of 4-5-ish major villains ("Mandarin", Obadiah Stane, Crimson Dynamo with a dash of Whiplash, Justin Hammer) of his entire rogues gallery that numbers somewhere in the dozens.

So it just does good to use the leftovers of their rogues gallery for their legacy characters. Captain America likely had the most fruitful run of the bunch as far as rogues go and even then there's a bunch left.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#131179: Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:37:39 PM

It’s Spider-Man whose films have had the most rogues gallery deep dive because he’s had multiple reboots and spin-offs.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#131180: Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:44:11 PM

The Iron Man villain I'd like to see the most is Ezekiel Stane.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131181: Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:48:09 PM

I just now remembered it was mentioned a while ago that Detroit Steel is an American version of Iron Man.

As in an overtly wasteful indulgent overkill suit representative of Murica.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#131182: Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:49:17 PM

Who are some other Iron Man villains that are considered actually decent? Titanium Man was mentioned a while back but we already had one evil knockoff. Is Radioactive Man used anymore?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#131183: Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:50:33 PM

[up][up][up]It'd actually make sense for an Iron Man legacy villain to be an enemy for MCU Spidey given MCU Spidey's villains so far having their motivations changed to be about Tony Stark.

MCU Spidey's basically become Iron Man's successor, so why not have him pitted against the son of Tony Stark's first villain?

Edited by M84 on Aug 2nd 2021 at 11:51:39 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#131184: Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:55:44 PM

[up]People like Spidey’s villains. In a case like this, it would be to shore up a weaker Rogues Gallery.

Edited by Beatman1 on Aug 2nd 2021 at 11:55:57 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#131185: Aug 2nd 2021 at 8:58:45 PM

[up][up][up] I thought Radioactive Man was an enemy of the Hulk's?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#131186: Aug 2nd 2021 at 9:12:54 PM

I thought Radioactive Man was an enemy of the Hulk's?

Actually, I might be mixing things up here. Radioactive Man teamed up with Crimson Dynamo and Titanium Man at one point. Seems he was largely bouncing between different heroes.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#131187: Aug 2nd 2021 at 9:58:11 PM

Who are some other Iron Man villains that are considered actually decent?

Iron Man has kind of a dogshit rogues gallery for the level he's at in comic book history. There's several with a lot of potential as noted by Known, but mostly just floating by. The real baseline IM villains are The Mandarin, Justin Hammer and Crimson Dynamo as the podium with Obadiah and Ezekiel Stane (Aldritch Killian from Iron Man 3 being actually much closerto Ezekiel than Mandarin, on a side-note) trailing a bit behind just missing out on the podium.

Living Laser was mentioned. Another with potential would be Titanium Man, for the concept of a armored villain filled to the brim with Body Horror as his armor is basically his life support due faulty tech. He's one of a hundred other "Soviet villain a bit out of place after the cold war ended" but he can be reworked, I think, being more on that Body Horror premise (he can even be played somewhat sympathetically as a dying man stuck in a iron coffin that is his body armor). Spymaster and Madame Masque have a nice niche of industrial espionage mindgames that could be explored.

For Ironheart in specific, I think the easiest transplant would be Ezekiel Stane. Obadiah and Stark had a pseudo father-and-son relationship turned sour, so only fitting their proverbial successors go at each other continuing their feud. Given they're adapting Armor Wars specifically you could easily slot Ezekiel in place of Justin Hammer as the smooth operator mastermind in the proceedings.

One funny thing is that Iron Man's rogues gallery is actually much more pronounced towards Legacy Character routines than literally any other off the top of my head, so this is actually kind of keeping in with the spirit. Ezekiel Stane carries the villainous torch of his dad Obadiah, Justine does the same for Justin, and there have been: two Melters, two Blizzards, two Maulers, three Titanium Men, three Spymasters and I-shit-you-not Fourteeen Crimson Dynamos.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131188: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:17:12 PM

I genuinely think that Iron Man's general rogues gallery is to a degree intentionally designed the way they are so as to be utilized easily by the rest of the universe as drop in villains.

Iron Man himself is so tied up in Avengers content that his own solo outings tend to be less significant to the character than his impact on the universe as a whole, so there's less need for him to have a vibrant Rogues Gallery of interesting foes who can all carry a storyline, like - say - Spidey has.

So instead, nearly all of Iron Man's foes are superthugs and mooks who don't really have much personality or story behind them, but can basically be placed into any as a powerful but minor antagonist for any particular hero to beat up if you want that to happen - which is something Marvel does like to do. Need some guy in power armor to be The Dragon to your new Big Bad? Iron Man's got a villain for that. Need some idiot to rob a bank while your hero is taking a break from brooding about the latest event? Iron Man's got a villain for that. Want a themed team of personality-less villains who are interesting specifically because of their theme, like a bunch of fire based villains or dudes with sparkly fingers or whatever? Iron Man's got a villain for that.

He's basically the Marvel Universe's one stop shop for hi-tech Elite Mook characters who can be used without consequences. Which is interesting for how the universe of Marvel comics utilizes villains overall, but means that few of Tony's staple rogues can actually carry a story on their own and most are kind of meh as individual characters. For the same reason, a lot of them have really cool designs and powers but not so distinctive personalities.

Really, most (though not all) of his best villains on a narrative level tend to be tied to very specific stories and/or are one-shot affairs.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:18:30 AM

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#131189: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:18:47 PM

Ghost actually started out as a member of Iron Man's Rogues Gallery too.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#131190: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:19:38 PM

Spymaster and Madame Masque have a nice niche of industrial espionage mindgames that could be explored.

Wasn't Madame Masque in Agent Carter?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131191: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:20:14 PM

I do remember on occasion hearing that Iron Man works better as an Avenger and not in his own solo ongoings.

Now that I think about it, I rarely hear any actual praise about his ongoings. About the only thing I can recall is the Extremis arc and that was well over a decade ago.

[up][up] Who did become more of a well-built character after he was transitioned to the Thunderbolts I recall.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:21:02 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#131192: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:25:36 PM

[up][up]I'm not sure Agent Carter is canon any more. Regardless, Madame Masque can be a Legacy Character too.

On that note, Madame Masque is also a player in Hawkeye's solo series, so maybe she will show up in the show.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#131193: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:27:36 PM

I'm not sure Agent Carter is canon any more.

At least some parts of it are still considered canon, I thought? Beyond Jarvis's actor showing up in Endgame, I seem to recall a mention of the "Faustus Method" in one of the movies (correct me if I'm wrong, I could be misremembering).

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131194: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:29:51 PM

The Faustus Method is mentioned as part of the techniques that created the Winter Soldier.

On the flipside, while Dr. Faustus does appear in Agent Carter, he's never actually referred to as Dr. Faustus.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#131196: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:38:29 PM

Wasn't Madame Masque in Agent Carter?

Yes but they never called her Madame Masque and she had pretty much nothing in common with the comic character.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#131197: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:39:39 PM

Yeah, they could - if they wanted to - do an entirely comics accurate version of Madame Masque later and the only similarity would be that they have the same name.

Hell, even the fact that they're both tied to the Maggia would be entirely different, because Agent Carter's Maggia also has barely anything to do with the comics Maggia.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:40:45 AM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#131198: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:39:52 PM

For Hawkeye they could always split the difference and have her as Madame Masque, but also establish that she's, like, Whitney Frost the Second or something if they wanted to tie in the old shows (which they probably won't judging by their track record so far).

Edited by lbssb on Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:40:34 AM

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#131199: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:42:48 PM

Yes but they never called her Madame Masque and she had pretty much nothing in common with the comic character.

This feels like a recurring theme.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#131200: Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:48:11 PM

Agent Carter’s Madame Masque was a poor country girl who rose to a famous Hollywood actress but felt lonely and disrespected because most cared only about her looks but not her scientific genius. Then she gets powers from the Darkforce and thus the means to revolutionize the world scientifically and kill anyone who tries to take recognition from her. Eventually she lost her powers and her mind, ending up in an asylum.

Comics Madame Masque, particularly in the Hawkeye runs, is a countess and crime lord who has never lacked anything in her life and pursues the Hawkeyes out of spite that they got one over her in their making-it-up-along-the-way bumbling. No powers, just a ton of money and mooks. She seeks to Body Surf into a body with powers and also sells those services to the rich to give them immortal youthful bodies.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 2nd 2021 at 10:51:35 AM


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