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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#131001: Jul 31st 2021 at 7:30:31 PM

Though Strange had to make sure Tony didn’t know the plan required his death until near the end, because otherwise Tony would have likely fucked it up and try to find another way.

But to still make the choice in the end with what time he does have shows he can be that heroic, just like in the first Avengers when the nukes were sent and they had one chance to save millions.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jul 31st 2021 at 7:31:10 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131002: Jul 31st 2021 at 7:43:33 PM

[up]

Tony already admitted he's the guy who'd cut the wire. So yeah, if he thinks there's another way, he'd search for it.

It's why he's so devastated by Phil Coulson's death. It's why Yinsen's death hits him so hard.

And yeah, despite that, he did still throw himself into the wormhole without hesitation. And that's when he had a lot less to lose.

And then he makes the choice again, for the sake of his daughter. I do think that it's true he'd have tried to find another way if he knew, for the same reason he made it when the time came: for Morgan.

That being said:

He killed Thanos's army while killing himself in the process. He's a hero, it's pretty hard to deny it now.

What are you talking about? It's clear that Thanos and his children sacrificed themselves to trick Tony into killing himself. How can you not see what heroes they are? You disappoint me.cool

One Strip! One Strip!
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#131003: Jul 31st 2021 at 7:43:53 PM

Was killing all of Thanos's armies in one fell swoop really a truly heroic thing? Similar actions tend to be treated as a Moral Event Horizon when done by a villain.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131004: Jul 31st 2021 at 7:45:46 PM

Well the upside is that Thanos would have destroyed the universe had he won so Tony saved untold billions upon billions

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#131005: Jul 31st 2021 at 7:49:49 PM

[up]The hardest choices require the strongest willtongue

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131006: Jul 31st 2021 at 7:51:06 PM

[up][up][up] We’re talking about the mostly mindless army of a genocidal conqueror right?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#131007: Jul 31st 2021 at 7:51:09 PM

But did Tony need to kill all of Thanos's armies at once to keep Thanos from winning? Was there a less-lethal option he could have used, like sending them back to their own time or homeworlds?

[up] How do you know that it's basically all mindless?

Edited by Ayasugi on Jul 31st 2021 at 10:52:28 AM

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#131008: Jul 31st 2021 at 7:53:45 PM

I assumed that a majority of Thanos' army was the CGI dog-beast-things seen in Infinity War, so maybe from that?

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131009: Jul 31st 2021 at 7:54:29 PM

See. As long as it's Tony Stark, you can always find the evil part.grin

I told you he was a bad guy.

Mysterio was right!

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131010: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:00:22 PM

Because yeah majority of we’ve seen of his army are mindless genetically engineered abominations.

And the actually sentient officers would be all like the Black Order. Violent warmongers indoctrinated under the Thanos cult.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#131011: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:00:28 PM

Or maybe it's the fault of the writers, who want to have the heroes show off how amazing they are by destroying entire armies, but then other branches of the canon have villains solidify their status as evil by destroying entire armies. There's only so many times they can pull the "the armies the heroes destroyed aren't made up of people, while the ones the villains killed are" before it starts to seem contrived.

[up] So, more Gamoras and Nebulas who never got a chance to break away from him?

Edited by Ayasugi on Jul 31st 2021 at 11:01:43 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131012: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:02:56 PM

I think it’d be more contrived for Thanos to find enough nihilists to man an entire army

It’s not like he’s even plundering. His whole dumb thing is that halving the population will let planets with resource problems thrive so taking some of the little they have wouldn’t be great for that

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#131013: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:04:56 PM

Only because they decided to have him just halve the populations of the worlds he took over, rather than acting like most conquerors and press-ganging the populations of those worlds into helping him.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131014: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:05:49 PM

[up][up][up] Exceptions that prove the rule.

The rest of the Black Order were in the same situation as Gamora and Nebula yet all 4 showed absolutely no problem serving under Thanos.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 31st 2021 at 8:06:02 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#131015: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:08:55 PM

But Thanos isn't really conquering. He's just going around murdering.

And conquering has never really been his thing in comics either.

But yeah, its a contrivance. Comic books are built on them. Movies, if anything, more so. If it takes you out of the movie well thats valid.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#131016: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:41:29 PM

I'm just remembering an old argument I heard (I don't know if it was on this thread or not) where someone argued that Tony committed a war crime at the end of the first Avengers movie because he nuked the Chitauri spaceship. And the crux of their argument boiled down to "well, we don't know that they were Chitauri civilians or children aboard that ship, so we just have to assume that there were".

I think this was back before Age of Ultron came out, so this kind of thing goes way back.

[down] I don't know! That's why it's stuck out to me all these years later. I think they thought it was like, the Chitauri homeworld or something?

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jul 31st 2021 at 11:51:12 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131017: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:49:33 PM

Why would there be children and civilians aboard a warship?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#131018: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:52:17 PM

Yeah, Gamora and Nebula aside, Thanos is just the kind of dude that does his thing then leaves. Nothing leaves with him.

The legend has returned.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#131019: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:54:05 PM

Even if there were, dragging your own civilians into a combat situation like that would put the war crime on the Chitauri's hands, not Tony's for destroying an enemy combatant.

Or, to quote Raiden, "Of course they get hurt, when you set them up as your human shield!"

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131020: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:54:14 PM

So here's a thought (which I feel like I've asked before, but that was probably back in 2018):

Could Carol have used the gauntlet without dying?

Like, she's gave the power of an Infinity Stone in her. And she actively absorbs energy. She can probably tank it far better than Hulk can.

Of course, in all the craziness of the final battle, I suspect it never occurred to her to try, especially since she was busy either trying to get rid of the gauntlet, trying to stop Thanos from using the Gauntlet, or eating a power stone punch to the face.

One Strip! One Strip!
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#131021: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:56:43 PM

They only managed to pull that stunt because Tony could basically steal the Stones from Thanos under his nose and wouldn't have much time before getting mobbed or bombed or something, so it'd fall on whoever gets a gauntlet and the six glowing rocks.

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#131022: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:57:25 PM

The Hail Mary pass.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#131023: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:58:16 PM

Yeah. But it does make me wonder if there were worlds where she did pull it off.

Which, considering we know only the world where Tony makes the sacrifice is the winning world, makes you wonder what went wrong....or what those TVA assholes did to make it fail.

One Strip! One Strip!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#131024: Jul 31st 2021 at 8:59:44 PM

She honestly was probably the best candidate to wield the Gauntlet if she had the opportunity to do so. The movie implies that Thor would've been able able to use it if he was in a better state of mind, and Carol has the durability to match the most powerful Asgardians. Unless there's some lingering trauma from her years being brainwashed by the Kree (which I don't see any sign of), she definitely has the mental fortitude to use it effectively.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jul 31st 2021 at 12:00:31 PM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#131025: Jul 31st 2021 at 9:02:51 PM

Didn't she have it for a couple of minutes?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

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