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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#130526: Jul 25th 2021 at 3:58:35 PM

From that one early screencap we may be getting Maximus the Mad at least. Unsure what else may happen until we get more.

Regardless I honestly doubt the show has that much of an impact on MCU Inhumans stuff primarily because it was so doomed from the jump that I honestly doubt many people even watched or remember it. It was so toxic bad even the crowd who wants all of the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. stuff canonized is fine jettisonning the isolated single season.

IMO the MCU is as beholden to it as it is to that one Daimon Helstrom show that got instantly abandoned.

Edited by Watchtower on Jul 25th 2021 at 6:59:19 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#130527: Jul 25th 2021 at 4:03:50 PM

The Square game (which has been hit hard by the playerbase, by the way) started as a project while Marvel still was trying to make the Inhumans a thing, and it would have set up the Nuhumans as it was. By now, that concept was buried with prejudice and only a few characters remain, and who even knows if Terrigenesis is gonna play a part in Ms. Marvel's origins anymore after the show starts.

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130528: Jul 25th 2021 at 4:04:52 PM

Weirdly enough the final boss of the base game is a giant purple robot, a Sentinel.

[up][up] Wait which season had the Inhumans?

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 25th 2021 at 4:05:42 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130529: Jul 25th 2021 at 4:07:50 PM

I also don't want them to dump the Inhumans.

It's not their fault that they were forced into a role that didn't suit them. That's on Permulter mostly.

Now, they got their own issues that have nothing to do with the forced rivalry with the X-Men that need to also be addressed.

I will say however that the current arc for the X-Men has them arguably being better Inhumans (including having their own place on the moon, and colonizing Mars) than the Inhumans were Mutants.

It's some darkly hilarious irony.

I do hope Marvel doesn't toss them out entirely due to this. There's probably still some good stuff that can be done with them with the right story and writer.

One Strip! One Strip!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#130530: Jul 25th 2021 at 4:13:40 PM

I think they might change Kamala's origins, but they'll probably change it so instead of being exposed to Terrigen Mists, it'll be some rogue gas created someone else. Maybe a organization that's trying to give people superpowers? It's the most simplistic route to take without going bringing in the Inhumans or trying to retcon Kamala into being a mutant.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#130531: Jul 25th 2021 at 4:36:55 PM

I'm actually partial to Palestinian Magneto (which would also allow him to keep the Jewish roots intact), but like, Disney would never.

@Synchronicity Wait would you make him Palestinian Jewish or not? Somewhat hypocritically, I feel like that's a potential minefield that any writer who would want to tackle that should approach with the utmost delicacy. I'm not sure anyone could truly pull it off, although I'm open to being wrong...

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130532: Jul 25th 2021 at 4:43:06 PM

Wait would you make him Palestinian Jewish or not? Somewhat hypocritically, I feel like that's a potential minefield that any writer who would want to tackle that should approach with the utmost delicacy. I'm not sure anyone could truly pull it off, although I'm open to being wrong...

Plenty of Palestinian Jews and Christians were displaced during the Nakba, and the Israeli government doesn't particularly treat non-European Jews well (hell, there was a Mizrahi movement based on the Black Panther Party at one point). I do agree that Marvel would never go for that, though.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#130533: Jul 25th 2021 at 4:50:27 PM

I know full well about that. I've been told (anecdotally, I don't have hard data) that the most anti-Palestinian citizens of Israel are often times the Mizrahi Jews on account of them fleeing Arab persecution in their former home countries. It calls back to something that Tuckerscreator said about oppressed people beating up on other oppressed people. Like I said it's a minefield. I feel like Magneto would have to walk a very delicate tightrope.

Edited by jjjj2 on Jul 25th 2021 at 7:50:45 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130534: Jul 25th 2021 at 5:02:44 PM

Magneto is a character that, in general, walks a delicate tightrope. Raven Wilder had mentioned this:

But see, if you made Mangeto a survivor of the Rwandan genocide, you'd have a villain whose core trait is going too far in lashing out against bigotry, now being played by a black man. That would invite so many hot takes calling out the Unfortunate Implications (especially if Professor X remains a white guy).

And I do kind of agree with this leading into some BAD territory if Magneto were taken in that "oppressed guy who becomes as bad as his oppressors" direction lots of people love portraying him under. But this isn't a direction I *like* about the character either. I like the idea of Magneto being portrayed as a militant fighter who disagrees with Xavier's more reformist positions, not some kind of reverse-racist Nazi...and the thing is, I genuinely can't recall how often that actually happens with Magneto? I'm aware the 90's animated series largely played him as an anti-hero (I haven't watched it, though, so I don't know the specifics), but the Fox movies walked between extremist and just a straight Nazi. This is an issue that even occurs in Claremont's run, as famous as it is.

Really, the idea of Magneto as an anti-hero instead of an outright villain SHOULD be the proper angle to take the character, but Magneto gets taken from "They'll never accept us unless we fight back" to "I'm literally gonna commit genocide" and it infuriates me.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#130535: Jul 25th 2021 at 6:22:26 PM

We're not just talking about an interesting villain here. We're talking about the most prominent Jewish character in the comics industry, one popular in part because of his explicit Jewish identity and how he is tied by that to one of the worst atrocities in human history. It is a gigantic multi-layered cake of Unfortunate Implications to scrub that identity out and swap around genocides, with one layer being why the Rwandan Genocide is such a popular alternative pick. You could put the time and effort to making this shuffle work and try to make it not come off as just a lesser derivative of the OG Magneto...or you could just keep Magneto as-is, Hand Wave the Improbable Age which is the only reason this comes up in the first place, and move on. Maybe it's worth actually playing more into it and working more with it, as noted it's only getting more important to remember as The Holocaust becomes more of a distant memory.

The same can be said about attempting to keep Magneto's backstory tied as a survivor of the Holocaust and then try to explain how he could be in his prime in 2020 or why now has he decided to make open war against the regular humans for mutantkind. Too many times have I've seen explanations of Magneto surviving to the present day overtake the more crucial elements to his character, like his friendship with Xaiver and finding love before it was forcibly taken from him. It's a problem that I see with comic books dealing with a sliding timeline with writers (being fans of those comic books) spending more time explaining retcons rather than telling stories about these characters.

Honestly, it'll be best for Magneto to be the son of Holocaust survivors, and start building his character from there to understand why the Holocaust still matters even when it's almost a distant memory and that anti-Semitism didn't die with Hitler. It still exists in a different form, and Black Panther shows us that a villain can be influenced and motivated in anger by atrocities done to his people a century ago even if he himself wasn't personally there to witness it. Heck, Claremont was moved and affected by the impact the Holocaust had on the survivors after watching a documentary with them. It's what motivated him to make Magneto into a voice for those who had suffered and died during that atrocity decades ago.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#130536: Jul 25th 2021 at 9:25:04 PM

[up] I think we can both agree that people let themselves get way too caught up in the lore at the expense of the themes. I usually propose very simple Hand Wave-y solutions precisely because his Improbable Age doesn't actually matter unless you link it directly to Holocaust experimentation or something like that. What matters ultimately is his philosophy and how he contrasts with Xavier, and his relationship to the Holocaust informs a lot of his character.

Now, him being the son or descendent of Holocaust survivors instead of one himself is a legitimate route to take, though it does add a very interesting wrinkle: by removing it from his lived experience you add a degree of distance/ignorance to his wrath. And that can work - there's a very classic He Who Fights Monsters tragedy to a man so wanting his new people to not suffer the fate of his parents that he plunges into the very radicalism that made them suffer - it's just a different kind of balancing act vs. the current one.

Edited by Watchtower on Jul 25th 2021 at 12:25:50 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130537: Jul 25th 2021 at 9:52:56 PM

Moving on to a different convo, do we know the current state of the galaxy?

Like Thanos left a trail of carnage during Infinity War, we know he completely decimated Xandar, but its been 5 years since. Plus with the unsap happening, the galaxy is most likely back into turmoil with so many people coming back.

And then there's the fact that Thanos retirement/death has left a power vacuum with position of the universes strongest up for grabs.

I'm curious whats next for Cosmic Marvel. Be a pretty good time to give the Nova Corps powers. tongue

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 25th 2021 at 9:53:44 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130538: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:00:54 PM

Well, Thanos wasn't a power or position really.

He was a marauding army with no interest in setting up shop or trading or conquering. He destroyed for a personal ideology. He came, he killed half a population, he left.

The big purple man didn't leave any shoes to fill because that's not actually a role that needs to be filled. His army doesn't require employment or new leadership because they poofed into dust.

But there's definitely vacuum in space.

Badum pish.

Between the chaos of the snap and the unsnop, I'm sure there's plenty of opportunists ready to take advantage. Maybe not the Ravagers since they seem like they're the moral kind of cut-throats but other pirates and raiders taking advantage to loot, burn, pillage, enslave. Conquerors who see the opportunity to carve a new empire out of those in disarray.

The saving grace of space is that the disarray is evenly distributed, more or less, so no existing structure or power is starting from a position of stability over a vulnerable neighbor.

But those that aren't representatives of structured power could be having a field day.

Unless of course they run into Carol Danvers' fist ten times. Then its detention.

Edited by Bocaj on Jul 25th 2021 at 1:01:31 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#130539: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:01:06 PM

I think he did worse than merely decimate Xandar. tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#130540: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:04:13 PM

How many times do you think Carol had to punch out the Kree?

Wake me up at your own risk.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130541: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:05:05 PM

I assume, without any backing evidence, that she's become a cultural boogeyman for them

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130542: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:10:07 PM

We are getting Marvels next year so we should get a good look at how the Kree and Skrulls are doing since.

And before that Thor 4 which is I think a cosmic title. Rather curious how Gorr fits into the cosmic hierarchy.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 25th 2021 at 10:10:19 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#130543: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:55:20 PM

I think my interest in Gorr begins and ends in whether or not he'll be wielding    All-Black the Necrosword   .

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#130544: Jul 25th 2021 at 11:59:11 PM

The army Thanos brought from the past got turned into dust, but what about the remains of his army left over after the battle in Wakanda?

Even if they were all taken care of after the battle, presumably fifty percent of them died in the Snap, and then were brought back to life during the Blip. What'd they do then?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130545: Jul 26th 2021 at 12:03:42 AM

They also turned to dust because Tony was not specific in his very specific snap

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130546: Jul 26th 2021 at 2:57:41 AM

On an unrelated note, I just found out this video of Venom-Carnage is actually from the Guardians of the Galaxy cartoon in a crossover with Spider-Man which is just weird.

[up][up][up] He'll prolly have the sword as its his main weapon and the source of his powers. Though it prolly won't be a symbiote depending on how Marvel feels about Venom.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#130547: Jul 26th 2021 at 7:50:42 AM

Speaking of Thanos and his presence in space, I really hope that one of the alternate timelines covered in What If..? will be the alternate 2014 from Avengers: Endgame where Thanos and his entire army just disappear from existence because they all went to the prime timeline 2023.

I mean, on the off chance that the TVA didn't prune it, it would be really interesting to observe what could happen in a timeline where Thanos never sets on his quest to gather the Infinity Stones.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#130548: Jul 26th 2021 at 8:37:57 AM

They also turned to dust because Tony was not specific in his very specific snap

2014 Gamora (who Tony never met) got spared when Tony did his snap. Take that as you will.

Okey Dokey!
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#130549: Jul 26th 2021 at 8:42:54 AM

Didn’t she already abandon Thanos during the battle though?

The legend has returned.
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#130550: Jul 26th 2021 at 9:47:39 AM

In the cut "Taking the Knee" scene post Tony's death she's shown alive not dusted but leaving the battle zone for parts unknown.


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