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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130501: Jul 25th 2021 at 9:48:54 AM

Also, as I am once again watching Spiderman Homecoming, I'm wondering who else got their hands on remaining Chitauri tech?

Come to think of it, I'm wondering if Tony ever tried to incorporate some of it into his own tech?

Like, AOU shows us he's not above trying that. He must have considered it, especially since he was the one who organized Damage Control.

One Strip! One Strip!
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#130502: Jul 25th 2021 at 9:54:28 AM

Luke Cage had Hammer make explody bullets with Chitauri tech.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#130503: Jul 25th 2021 at 9:57:13 AM

> I'm wondering who else got their hands on remaining Chitauri tech?

I imagine someone somewhere has managed to reverse engineer their tech as well

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#130504: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:01:14 AM

Probably doom if they bring him now they have the FF rights back.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#130505: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:01:41 AM

In Ao S they did showed that even regular people got ahold of chitauri technology.

There was a episode in which a firefighter kept a helmet as a souvenir, but it happened to be infected with a virus deadly to humans, killing him and some of his crewmates.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130506: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:03:38 AM

Tony’s armor makes so many technological leaps througout the movies that I think he probably did learn from some of the various alien crap that kept exploding on earth

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
DoubleOG (Apprentice)
#130507: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:07:02 AM

Isn't there also a short film about a couple using alien tech to rob banks?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130508: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:07:09 AM

That makes sense.

He really starts making jumps post Avengers.

There were some who thought he may have gotten a chance to look at Wakandan tech considering the sudden move to Nano-tech in Infinity War.

Especially since his armour in that is basically every single suit from the House Part Protocol in one.

One Strip! One Strip!
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#130509: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:33:45 AM

But see, if you made Mangeto a survivor of the Rwandan genocide, you'd have a villain whose core trait is going too far in lashing out against bigotry, now being played by a black man. That would invite so many hot takes calling out the Unfortunate Implications (especially if Professor X remains a white guy).

The essence of the character is that he's a victim of genocide going too far. That's baked into him. I feel like there's already sort of Unfortunate Implications in the DNA of the character, but done well you can say compelling things anyway. That I feel doesn't change no matter what race you make him. And if they were to make him Rwandan I would hope they wouldn't make Professor X white. Although I would still want him to come from a position of privilege (i.e. rich), because I really like the dichotomy that entails.

Edited by jjjj2 on Jul 25th 2021 at 1:36:22 PM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#130510: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:42:15 AM

Magneto being a Holocaust survivor might not have been there from the start, but like Batman not using guns anymore and having a No-Kill Code in contrast to his first appearance, it became pretty much the core of the character.

Early Installment Weirdness at play here.

If you wanna see the classic, irredeemable Magneto being played straight, look at Ultimate Magneto.

I'm not suggesting that Magneto go back to his early days as Mutant Hitler. But I am saying that if Magneto's origins was changed by Claremont to bring awareness of the trauma the Holocaust survivors suffered to a new generation, it can be done again to better reflect our time and the MCU while still staying true to what has come before.

I mean, Thanos initially started as the alien villain that Drax the Destroyer wanted to kill (with Iron Man tagging along) and Thanos being in love with Death and using the Infinity Gauntlet wasn't established until decades later (and became the most iconic and well-known core characterization of the character in the comics).

But the MCU couldn't pull off such an outlandish premise even with talking racoons, so they had to make their own Thanos from the ground up, still staying true to themes surrounding the Mad Titan (like death, wiping out half of the universe with a snap of his finger, and making a lot of enemies like Drax) but with their own interpretation that best fits the world of MCU (obsession with balance, a Well-Intentioned Extremist, "love" for his adopted daughters, etc.). And he's still recognized as Thanos. Same thing with Spider-Man (whose high school life borrows a lot from Miles) and Baron Zemo (who is reinterpreted as a someone who always hated Nazis rather than being pro-Nazi than later renounces his Nazi ideology).

So instead of trying to make Voodoo Shark explanations for Magneto to be played by a relatively young actor in 2020s and still have his Holocaust backstory, it is better for the MCU to go back to the basics and ask "What makes Magneto Magneto and how do we make his character relatable in the present day while still being true to the past?" Yes, Magneto would essentially be a new character with this modern update but then again, Peter Parker is more Miles Morales than the classic Peter Parker and yet most people accept him as Peter Parker because it's still thematically true to the character and premise.

Edited by Shadao on Jul 25th 2021 at 11:12:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#130511: Jul 25th 2021 at 10:51:27 AM

I like that explanation.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#130513: Jul 25th 2021 at 2:30:03 PM

I'm not sure why, but I've really become curious with the character of Valentina Allegra de Fontaine. I don't know the actress that well (although my dad thinks she was amazing in Veep and Seinfeld), but I really like how they're building her up as this Ambiguously Evil mystery person that's constantly hiring people with a unique skillset to work on her behalf. She kinda makes me think of the G-Man from Half-Life, but as a regular person instead of some Humanoid Abomination. Anyone else feel similar?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#130514: Jul 25th 2021 at 2:37:33 PM

[up] Well, she has ties with SHEILD in the comics, and was even once Nick Fury's lover plus she also assumed the alias of Madame Hydra.

Who knows what her role is in the MCU right now.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#130515: Jul 25th 2021 at 2:42:55 PM

I'm mostly curious to see why she manipulated Yelena Belova into believing Hawkeye was responsible for Natasha's death. Can't help but wonder if she actually wants Clint dead, or if she's sending Yelena on a wild goose chase as some kind of distraction. Or maybe she's doing it for shits and giggles.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#130516: Jul 25th 2021 at 2:47:44 PM

I think in all honesty, I'm starting to really like a lot of the Badass Normal spy characters in the MCU more than I did when I was younger. I dunno, the idea of just being some kind of regular government agent getting involved with supernatural or extraterrestrial elements mixed with regular cases and field work has always been something I like. I'm really curious to see what Nick Fury gets up to in space, for instance. And how Black Widow went from defecting from Russia to America, to shadowing a billionaire in an iron suit, to fighting a bunch of aliens and robots.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jul 25th 2021 at 2:48:49 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#130517: Jul 25th 2021 at 2:51:53 PM

I can see her ending up as some sort of vague Marvel equivalent to Amanda Waller - setting up a squad for purposes you don't necessarily want "heroes" entangled in - in this case it's most likely to be Dark Avengers given she's now got herself equivalents of both Cap and Widow.

I also quite like the idea of Badass Normal types finding their place in the MCU, and I think they've so far found a good balance of making these guys definitely be good at certain things and in certain situations but not at the expense of showing that in sheer power terms they still rank well below Thunder Gods and Super Soldiers.

Edited by jakobitis on Jul 25th 2021 at 10:55:53 AM

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#130518: Jul 25th 2021 at 3:09:09 PM

I'm actually partial to Palestinian Magneto (which would also allow him to keep the Jewish roots intact), but like, Disney would never.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#130519: Jul 25th 2021 at 3:10:52 PM

Heck, even Nazi fanboy Red Skull got changed to a guy that uses Nazis as pawns in his schemes.

The legend has returned.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#130520: Jul 25th 2021 at 3:36:03 PM

The thing about this whole Magneto conversation/debate is that it sounds valid enough at first glance, but it's only when you really pull back that you can see how messed up it is.

We're not just talking about an interesting villain here. We're talking about the most prominent Jewish character in the comics industry, one popular in part because of his explicit Jewish identity and how he is tied by that to one of the worst atrocities in human history. It is a gigantic multi-layered cake of Unfortunate Implications to scrub that identity out and swap around genocides, with one layer being why the Rwandan Genocide is such a popular alternative pick. You could put the time and effort to making this shuffle work and try to make it not come off as just a lesser derivative of the OG Magneto...or you could just keep Magneto as-is, Hand Wave the Improbable Age which is the only reason this comes up in the first place, and move on. Maybe it's worth actually playing more into it and working more with it, as noted it's only getting more important to remember as The Holocaust becomes more of a distant memory.


On a completely different but still slightly related note, it still really bugs me raw that people still want Kamala and other Inhumans/Nu-Humans reworked into mutants. There is no reason for this to be floated around other than the belief that the Inhumans as a concept deserves to be torched, which...just always comes off as short-sighted. Inhumans, mutants, Eternals, etc. have all existed together for decades, a few years of Executive Meddling shouldn't mean much of anything.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#130521: Jul 25th 2021 at 3:46:35 PM

I think Kamala will be end up being the only inhuman they will acknowledge at first,thanks to the TV show being such a disaster they're probably going to hold off introducing other inhumans or the royal family for a looong time

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130522: Jul 25th 2021 at 3:50:14 PM

Trying to remember:

Was it stated if Dr. Strange remembered each of the time loops (and thus, every single one of his deaths) or if it was always the first time for him, and only Dormammu was noticing that time was looping?

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#130523: Jul 25th 2021 at 3:52:51 PM

Not that I know of but remembering every death would be horrifying

Edited by Ultimatum on Jul 25th 2021 at 10:53:03 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#130524: Jul 25th 2021 at 3:53:31 PM

[up][up] Or do like the Marvel Avengers game explore Inhumans on a lesser scale.

Just Makima.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#130525: Jul 25th 2021 at 3:57:26 PM

It's left ambiguous in the movie but in an earlier version of the script Strange remembered all his deaths.


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