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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#130401: Jul 24th 2021 at 4:05:51 AM

There was also going to be a scene of him bonding with Bucky in the prison transport car over having also been a victim of brainwashing, which would've been an interesting angle to pursue if they ever had any real interest in developing him any.

I would've also been all for something similar between Bucky and Wanda, given their uses as tools for HYDRA.

AOU was definitely Clint's best showing. His interactions with the Maximoffs were one of the film's better aspects, and that bond serving as the backbone of his cameo in Civil War is what turned it from me not giving a damn to actually enjoying it.

"Are you up for this? Are you? Look, I just need to know because the city is flying. Look, okay? The city is flying, we're fighting an army of robots... and I have a bow and arrow, none of this makes sense. But I'm going back out there because it's my job. Okay? And I can't do my job and babysit. It doesn't matter what you did or what you were, if you go out there, you fight and you fight to kill. Stay in here, you're good, I'll send your brother to come find you, but if you walk out of that door... you are an Avenger" is definitely one of the most rewatchable scenes in Age of Ultron.

Edited by dmcreif on Jul 24th 2021 at 7:09:25 AM

Okey Dokey!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#130402: Jul 24th 2021 at 4:39:33 AM

Isn’t that the point of a solo series? Give the characters more to work with? You would assume they see what the room is saying and react accordingly.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#130403: Jul 24th 2021 at 4:51:34 AM

Of all the Avengers that needed a TV show, Clint needs one the most, so it's good he's getting one to flesh him out.

The legend has returned.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#130404: Jul 24th 2021 at 4:56:24 AM

They should call his show Arrow...

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130405: Jul 24th 2021 at 4:59:35 AM

[up][up] Especially since his mentoring of Kate should get a lot out of him.

It should work pretty well.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#130406: Jul 24th 2021 at 5:05:42 AM

No, his show should be called Because... Boomerangs.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#130407: Jul 24th 2021 at 5:08:50 AM

My bet is Bows and Swords and Fists, Oh My.

The legend has returned.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#130408: Jul 24th 2021 at 1:54:20 PM

.....Where did Hank get the tank from?

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jul 24th 2021 at 1:54:39 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130409: Jul 24th 2021 at 1:56:27 PM

He used to work for SHIELD and he quit in a huff

Some people steal keyboards but Hank doesn’t think so……….. small

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#130411: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:02:20 PM

But did they have tanks back when Hank quit? Prove they didn’t

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#130412: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:03:26 PM

they had one working tank and some jerk stole it

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#130413: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:08:17 PM

Apparently, there was a deleted scene that showed Hank shrinking a tank during his Ant-Man days, explaining where he got it. I recall that it was cut because they wanted the keychain reveal to be a surprise.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#130414: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:15:15 PM

I pointed this out before but Chris Claremont actually said his view of Xavier and Magneto was as parallels to David Ben-Gurion and Menachem Begin. Which is a really messed up take, to put it lightly. Ben-Gurion was on the "liberal" end of the Israeli political spectrum but he still oversaw the Nakba. Begin was a flat out terrorist who committed massacres on Palestinians (for which he was even arrested by the British!), then his premiership saw the Israeli intervention in Lebanon and alliance with the fascist Phalangist movement, alongside multiple other massacres...and Claremont literally viewed Begin going from terrorist to Nobel Prize-winning prime minister as an inspiration for Magneto's redemption.

Wait I'm confused why do you have a problem with this? Xavier isn't exactly a paragon of morality in the comics (he's done some really shady shit), and Magneto has done stuff similar to what Begin has done. It seems like a valid comparison to me... More to the point no allegory is going to be perfect. That's why it's an allegory.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#130415: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:20:59 PM

Xavier and Wolverine are almost saints compared to their comic book counterparts,Xavier mind controlled people into joining the xmen and don't get me started Wolverine..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#130416: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:22:52 PM

And thats nothing compared to the Ultimate selves where they both express explicate sexual attraction to a teenage Jean Grey.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130417: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:24:23 PM

Wait I'm confused why do you have a problem with this? Xavier isn't exactly a paragon of morality in the comics (he's done some really shady shit), and Magneto has done stuff similar to what Begin has done. It seems like a valid comparison to me... More to the point no allegory is going to be perfect. That's why it's an allegory.

It's not a good allegory for oppression to base characters off perpetrators of ethnic cleansings and massacres (and there's already a lot that can be said about how the X-Men are just a really bad allegory for oppression in general). My issue is with Claremont's logic of basing either character off people who massacred Palestinians, especially in the case of Magneto. It doesn't sit well with me when Claremont writes Magneto as wondering if he's becoming as bad as the Nazis who held him in a concentration camp (and in general I hate when people take Magneto's villainy to make him borderline Nazi-ish...First Class outright had him AGREE with the Nazi antagonist).

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#130418: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:31:28 PM

[up]Yeah, I probably agree with this. It does seem...a bit tasteless, for lack of a better word?

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 24th 2021 at 2:32:59 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#130419: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:34:43 PM

But that's what Magneto does... I mean my father once told me of a Far-Right israeli activist (name escapes at this point; probably not Menachem), but before he was a far-right activist he was committed to peace with the local Palestinians. Then the Safed Riots and Hebron Massacre happened. And so he devoted his life to hatred. The idea of a Magneto type character arising from that isn't that unrealistic in my mind.

Edited by jjjj2 on Jul 24th 2021 at 5:58:39 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#130420: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:36:36 PM

[up]Magneto had done other things. This role is one that has shifted a lot in comics, if I remember correctly? Grant Morrison had to shift him into being a "terrorist twat" again.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 24th 2021 at 2:37:51 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#130421: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:45:43 PM

[up]Morrison did that specifically as a rebellion against Mag’s Lighter and Softer portrayal.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#130422: Jul 24th 2021 at 2:57:56 PM

[up]And thus, pure nonsense, raw and undiluted, was born in the form of Xorn and sentient viruses. It doesn’t contradict the point, anyway.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#130423: Jul 24th 2021 at 3:02:31 PM

But that's what Magneto does...

It depends on the writer. It doesn't sit well with me when Magneto is bouncing between beating up Red Skull and acting as a "reverse Nazi" type, nor do I like the framing of him, an oppressed person, acting out against his oppressors and it being regarded as the same degree of hatred or violence.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#130424: Jul 24th 2021 at 3:09:48 PM

Well to each there own, I understand that.

I've made this view clear before, but to me the most important facet of Magneto is not that he's Jewish but that he's a victim of genocide (I say this as a Jewish man). Thus if you updated him to be Rwandan I think that could add excellent characterization to him. If you wanted to keep him Jewish, you could even make him half Ethiopian (Beta Israel). There's a lot of layers there, and given that Rwanda is really close to where Wakanda allegedly is, that could give him conflict with them for a future story.

Edited by jjjj2 on Jul 24th 2021 at 6:10:37 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#130425: Jul 24th 2021 at 3:10:13 PM

Let's face it it's probably pretty difficult to write a story where someone like Magneato is the most powerful mutants in existence and doesn't use his powers for evil since its become so standard

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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